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Gen 7 Celica GTS...Why does no one use this car??


ahunt032
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My friend and I are looking to build a second beater car to enter it into some Lemons races as well as some chump races.  

 

The reason why it is attractive to us is its very competitive power to weight distribution, 4 wheel disc brakes, Toyota Engine (Same engine in the Lotus), 6 speed...I can't understand why I can't find anyone who has used this car for cheap endurance racing.  I can find lots of older Gen Celica's having entered, just can't seem to find anyone who has used the Gen 7....What am I missing? 

 

Thanks!

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For a lot of reasons:

-For a bang for your buck, the 3 series bimmers are about as good as it gets. 
-For toyota fanatics, the MR2 is a beast with a super underated V6 

-For people that have massive budgets, they want to race Porches
-For someone who wants to race a small FWD car, the Hondas are better
-For someone who wants a good little sportscar, the Miata is great
Etc. 

Etc.

Edited by red0
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cost and availability likely a reason.  Not many around for sale, looking at a couple grand to start.  Lots of other cars available with similar performance (or better) at less cost.

 

But if you have one...  build it!

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5 hours ago, cmi11er said:

Image result for kevin costner walking through corn gif

 

I feel like that reference is going to over the head of a lot of people.

 

1 hour ago, TimS said:

Gts has 180hp and a 14.5 gallon tank.  Sounds small for 2 hour stints.  Starting price is on the high side as well.  If you have one and know all the tricks to race it you may have hidden gem.

 

Bingo.  Fuel limited big time.  Even at 150 hp, we struggled to go 2 hours with 16 gallons at similar curb weight.  The Toyota will be more efficient for sure, but the 2zz is not a cheap or plentiful engine to replace.

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The 2ZZ powered GTS is not on the VPI list.  It is just the Celica GT which is a 1ZZ.

 

I raced a 2ZZ GTS for many years.  It has tremendous potential.  I did a 2:26 at Sebring in a 2ZZ Celica on Hoosiers.  2:09 at Daytona.  It is a very fast car.  The 1ZZ...not so much.

 

The transmission also has some fatal flaws.  It is super easy to do the 5th to 2nd money shift.  Virtually every Celica racer has done it.  TRD built a really cool speed-based 2nd gear lockout for the Pro/Celeb cars, but you'd basically have to buy one of those cars to get it...or beg me for the one that I have left.

 

The 2ZZ is a great engine, but it is temperamental.  You'd have to be conservative with the tuning, if you were planning to run one in an enduro.  The engine has some super high-rev potential, but you need to build it for that.  Also, I ran out of fuel in 80 minutes at Homestead.  The 2ZZ has zero chance of going to 2 hours on fuel.

 

I have a ton of Celica 2ZZ videos on my YouTube channel.  Here's a fun one where I started on pole, but the guy starting second and I were never told that there would be a 2nd pace lap around the oval at Homestead.  So, we ended up going to the back.  Passed the whole field.  Fun:  

 

Edited by Round3Racing
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The V6 will toast the 2zz badly. 
I have looked at the 7th gen and actually costed up a 2gr front engine rear drive setup using parts from a ST165 and a Supra.  
But the car is too light.

 

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On 10/31/2019 at 3:39 PM, ahunt032 said:

My friend and I are looking to build a second beater car to enter it into some Lemons races as well as some chump races.  

 

The reason why it is attractive to us is its very competitive power to weight distribution, 4 wheel disc brakes, Toyota Engine (Same engine in the Lotus), 6 speed...I can't understand why I can't find anyone who has used this car for cheap endurance racing.  I can find lots of older Gen Celica's having entered, just can't seem to find anyone who has used the Gen 7....What am I missing? 

 

Thanks!

 

Hey all - I'm "the friend"! We've now picked up our donor car, a 2000 Celica GTS based on all the great feedback here! 😂

 

Seems the major reasons against were "expense" and "fuel capacity". Our car was pretty inexpensive to buy - perhaps I have more expenses waiting for me in the unknown... but even parts and rebuild kits seem pretty cheap and plentiful. I only had to drive 20 mins to find this one, in great mechanical condition with some "aesthetic needs". As for fuel capacity, we're only building this to race in Lemons for my bachelor party, and so far our team is 10 drivers so stints will be short anyway. We're doing it for the sake of racing with friends, not to do 2hr stints and win anything... we have the E30 for that!

 

That said, we appreciate all the responses, especially those that discuss weak points of the car. Putting together some plans for those.

 

On 10/31/2019 at 9:49 PM, Round3Racing said:

The 2ZZ powered GTS is not on the VPI list.  It is just the Celica GT which is a 1ZZ.

 

I raced a 2ZZ GTS for many years.  It has tremendous potential.  I did a 2:26 at Sebring in a 2ZZ Celica on Hoosiers.  2:09 at Daytona.  It is a very fast car.  The 1ZZ...not so much.

 

The transmission also has some fatal flaws.  It is super easy to do the 5th to 2nd money shift.  Virtually every Celica racer has done it.  TRD built a really cool speed-based 2nd gear lockout for the Pro/Celeb cars, but you'd basically have to buy one of those cars to get it...or beg me for the one that I have left.

 

The 2ZZ is a great engine, but it is temperamental.  You'd have to be conservative with the tuning, if you were planning to run one in an enduro.  The engine has some super high-rev potential, but you need to build it for that.  Also, I ran out of fuel in 80 minutes at Homestead.  The 2ZZ has zero chance of going to 2 hours on fuel.

 

I have a ton of Celica 2ZZ videos on my YouTube channel.  Here's a fun one where I started on pole, but the guy starting second and I were never told that there would be a 2nd pace lap around the oval at Homestead.  So, we ended up going to the back.  Passed the whole field.  Fun:  

 

 

What size tires are you running? I picked up some dirt cheap stock 15" rims so planning to run those, but I think 205 is the largest tire I can put on those rims (6.5j).

 

20 hours ago, Hayne said:

Resized952018051895204356954760.jpg

IMG_20180413_172543.jpg

 

Speaking of tires... I think you could probably go a bit wider 😎lol. Did you guys build the cage yourself or have a shop do it? Car looks great! Would be interested in cage designs if you have them available to share?

 

Oh - here's our donor car!

Celica1.jpg

Edited by Vitamin-E Racing
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@Vitamin-E Racing We ran 15X7 wheels and I would highly recommend sticking with 15" wheels.  The 17" were just too much for that car.

 

Also, make sure that you use OEM boots for the CV joints.  And pack them with Redline CV-2 grease or another high temp CV grease.  I sent an email to Luke with a couple other tips.  If you're going to run stock ride height or similar, you should be okay.  When you get those cars too low, you'll start eating CV joints and blowing boots.  At that point, you need to start customizing the CV joint.

 

The car is a lot of fun to race.  Get in touch with MonkeyWrench racing, as they have a ton of stuff for that car.  You should seriously consider a Fuel Surge Tank (FST), as that car will fuel starve at about 1/4 full.  You'd also be smart to get the Moroso oil pan.

 

The transmission is not great.  Just be gentle.  Once it starts grinding, you're pretty screwed.  And a street clutch is not going to cut it.  Talk with Monkey Wrench and get their recommendation, but we used an AST clutch that worked great.

 

Tell all of your drivers to be careful with that gearbox.  It is so incredibly easy to do the 3rd to 2nd upshift.  I cannot stress that enough.  And don't get fancy with the shifter.  Use the stock setup, as a short-shifter makes it even worse.

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