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Suspension Swap and Relocate Engine


NimbleMotorsports
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I have a few race cars projects, trying to understand how they would fit for this series.

Let me just start with my Triumph GT6, I have an RX8 suspension for it.    I saw individual parts with points, but the RX8 has bolt-in subframes with complete suspension on it.

What about a Hybrid?   Two engines, one electric.

And what about relocating a FWD drivetrain to the rear?   

 

Go play in a different sandbox? 

 

 

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I'm not sure about the electrical stuff.  The suspension stuff is doable.

 

We have swapped a front subframe from one car into another.  It is 10 pts per suspension component.   We have like 80 pts in the front end suspension swap.

 

Moving fwd drivetrain to rear is okay.  Just count points for any materials used that are not repurposed.  Expect tech to go over the car very carefully!

Edited by wvumtnbkr
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7 hours ago, NimbleMotorsports said:

And what about relocating a FWD drivetrain to the rear? 

This would be the most viable to fit within the rules here.

 

The RX8 suspension under a TR6 may work because of low starting value. If the TR6 is to have a different driveline, do not forget to run the swap calculator, use TR6 as a starting point then add 25 for the trans, 25 for the diff on top of the calculator output #. Bonus (actually minus) points for running a auto transmission, subtract 75 from the end calculation.

 

 

 

 

Edit:

Started typing a hour ago but never finished, looks like I am confirming it can be done.

Edited by Team Infiniti
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Email tech first, then get approval from Mike C, and then the event directors and then the board before doing anything this extreme.

 

If tech approves something, the event directors can still shut it down, and Mike C can still shut it down and if you don't have the board on your side, then it's truly dead. 

 

You also have to be careful as to who is around tech, because they also seem to have influence regardless of wether they are a volunteer or a bystander, if they fear for their safety it's taken into consideration.

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2 minutes ago, LuckyKid said:

Email tech first, then get approval from Mike C, and then the event directors and then the board before doing anything this extreme.

 

If tech approves something, the event directors can still shut it down, and Mike C can still shut it down and if you don't have the board on your side, then it's truly dead. 

 

You also have to be careful as to who is around tech, because they also seem to have influence regardless of wether they are a volunteer or a bystander, if they fear for their safety it's taken into consideration.

Did something happen to you at tech?  The quoted language seems kinda paranoid. 

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Just now, wvumtnbkr said:

Did something happen to you at tech?  The quoted language seems kinda paranoid. 

I don't want to make this about me and my experiences most of which I posted about, but a lot of steps should be taken before doing something extreme or you will be wasting a lot of money.  I would strongly advise these steps be followed to be sure it will be accepted.

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1 hour ago, LuckyKid said:

I don't want to make this about me and my experiences most of which I posted about, but a lot of steps should be taken before doing something extreme or you will be wasting a lot of money.  I would strongly advise these steps be followed to be sure it will be accepted.

Interesting.

 

I have not had these same experiences.  However, I guess you could say that I haven't made any drastic changes or wild builds that I did not get approval from tech before hand.

 

Edit:  what did you do that was extreme and wasted a lot of money due to champcar refusal?

Edited by wvumtnbkr
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1 hour ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Interesting.

 

I have not had these same experiences.  However, I guess you could say that I haven't made any drastic changes or wild builds that I did not get approval from tech before hand.

 

Edit:  what did you do that was extreme and wasted a lot of money due to champcar refusal?

Front wing

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  • Technical Advisory Committee
5 minutes ago, enginerd said:

Front wing

 

4 minutes ago, Slugworks Paul said:

pics?

Parts Badger (Lucky Kid) posted a video somewhere a while back in the forums that showed them coming into the pits at WGI practice, and Jay telling him to lose the front wing. They've also cut off the entire rear end/structure of a couple of cars, and been told to put something structural back on there.

Edited by mcoppola
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1 hour ago, mcoppola said:

 

Parts Badger (Lucky Kid) posted a video somewhere a while back in the forums that showed them coming into the pits at WGI practice, and Jay telling him to lose the front wing. They've also cut off the entire rear end/structure of a couple of cars, and been told to put something structural back on there.

 

You can thank them and myself for that sweet new bash bar rule that I hope people have taken note of for 2020.... 🍻

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It is a Triumph GT6/Spitfire, has 75 points, drivetrain is automatic, so start at 0 points?   Stock suspension is unsafe at any speed.

Original engine is 2000cc 105hp (practically unobtanium) swap it for smaller size.  swap calculator says add 68pts for 120hp, 418pts for 140hp.

So at 120hp, I am at 68pts.   That would leave me 432 points, suspension swap should come in under that, 80pts * 2 = 160, lots of room for flares, radiator, fuel cell?

 

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Seems about right.

 

What size is the fuel tank?

 

Also, 25 pts for diff swap.  25 pts for trans swap if either piece isn't stock to the gt6.

 

So your drivetrain will cost 118 pts (maybe need a driveshaft or axle shafts which are also points?)  The axles and or driveshaft MAY be point free when combined with trans or diff swap.

 

If this doesn't have a 14 gallon stock tank, or larger....  probably not worth doing.

 

 

Also, you need to add up each piece of the suspension.  The 80 pts was for a macstrut front suspension.  About as simple as it gets.

 

An 2nd gen rx7 rear end with like 14 pieces on each side would be like 200 pts to swap in!

Edited by wvumtnbkr
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11 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Interesting.

 

I have not had these same experiences.  However, I guess you could say that I haven't made any drastic changes or wild builds that I did not get approval from tech before hand.

 

Edit:  what did you do that was extreme and wasted a lot of money due to champcar refusal?

The rear of the car and front wing were not pre-approved, but I thought it was clearly allowed in the rules.  The wing was veto'ed by the event director, afaik.  We had a "surge tank" that had no pump because it was unique we had that approved via email but then rejected after we ran it at WGI.  On our other car we had a rear aero structure that was pre-approved via email, and then rejected because a bystander commented they we're concerned. 

 

At another race a volunteer brought serious concern about the rear of the car again, especially now that light trucks are going to be allowed in the series, it could create extreme safety concerns if it ran out of brakes and careened into me.  You can't make this stuff up.

 

At Road America, our wing and splitter was measured and determined to be outside of the OEM body work. Although it is not outside the actual body work per the letter of the rules, "Bodywork when viewed from above" and the rules we are following, we were told we have to shorten the wider wing we had just bought once we widen the car for the fender flare rules.  Luckily Jay was kind enough not to toss our A-class win.  I sent an email to tech asking for clarification in this in the 2020 bccr since if a team follows the written rule that's different than what seems like they're going to enforce. No reply yet.

 

Point being, even when following the rules and get tech approval you really need to be careful about going outside the box.  Even with approval from tech, you still have many people with input and veto rights.

 

I think Ray and Jay are doing a great job, but it's clear there's other forces in the organization making this difficult for teams that innovate.

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18 minutes ago, LuckyKid said:

 

 

Point being, even when following the rules and get tech approval you really need to be careful about going outside the box.  Even with approval from tech, you still have many people with input and veto rights.

 

 

Yep, when you are pushing boundaries or are exploiting a loop hole, expect to get smacked down.

 

That being said, trucks have run in this series from the beginning.  That part seems like a misinterpretation.

 

I got the same talk about wing width.  I gotta cut mine down.  Should say stock bodywork.

 

The surge tank think is called out in the rules.  It doesn't say anything about pumps.  Sorry.

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23 minutes ago, NimbleMotorsports said:

I don't like having to nitpick, but this one is an indicator to me to run away.

OEM Radiators are not sized for endurance racing, just nonsense that it incurs a penalty.   Is the series about lowering costs, or comparing which OEM is better?

No hard feelings but

I fully call you out here, have successfully raced OEM radiators for 10 years (with multiple podium in champ/chump/lemons) When I say OEM radiators, I am literally referring to the ACTUAL plastic/aluminum radiator the car came off the assembly line with +120,000 miles, that under-rated, junk, 23 year old unit lasted over 20,000 race miles before one of us killed it with a wall hit, it was replaced with another used OEM rad of unknown history, then a engine swap happened, where a used random parts store radiator was swiped from a 4x4 explorer, stuffed in a Infiniti and run 15,000 race miles till that chineasium copy of a ford radiator started to drip when cooled off (hot was fine)

 

For reference, this car was A class last lemons race, the only cooling issues ever experienced originated from a old hose or the thermostat (never installing one again)

 

Tired of people saying what can not be done...as we pass them for position.

 

Rant over

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