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My take on the BOD election contenders


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It's human nature that makes all of us want more Horse Power, More Speed, More Braking and more Lateral Grip. This is very difficult process to control. All these gains should come by the way of being creative, having ingenuity, working harder, preparing the car, working on set up, you get the idea. It should not come by way of changing or adjusting the rules  so it allows a car combination to gain a substantial performance gain.

It is never a popular decision to change rules but I believe that changes need to be made now to give an equal  playing field to everyone.

It's not easy setting rules for what we do because we are using road cars for what would normally be done by purpose built race cars. No matter which car you choose from the VPI table it was not meant to  an eight hour endurance race let alone 24 hours.  

Not only is it difficult to mandate rules to keep everyone competitive but you also need to look into the future  to see what a team could come up with to not only get a huge advantage but also to keep costs in check.

Bernie Myers

Edited by hotrod
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6 hours ago, SonsOfIrony said:

 

My big gripe is the free parts.

 

If an engine doesn't fit, it shouldn't get free parts to make it fit, especially parts that increase power output and I think you agree on that.

 

The 240SX can not be made competitive in today's field of cars without an engine swap.  An engine swap that benifits from a free oil pan and free intake manifold.  Those parts should be points, and the base VPI of the car should be lowered accordingly (like the MR2) to give it at least a chance at being competitive without the swap.

 

I don't even race one anymore, and the value still annoys me.

 

And the E30 value isn't about the number of points it went down, it's how they did it that chaps my ass.  It was a backroom deal, done in secret, and snuck in to the rules for the benifit of just a few teams.  I actually don't disagree with M50 E30s competing at 500 points, but how we got there is scuzzy and I don't like it.


Not all of us pay attention to what happens with the rules and rumors to the Nth degree.  Can somebody say more explicitly what happened with the e30 rules? What changed? In what way did it get snuck in? When? By whom? For whom?

 

i race an m50 e30 but I also care zero percent about how many points our car is. 
 

not leading or sarcastic questions. I really don’t know, but I want to. There’s always a lot of this kind of talk on here but nobody is ever explicit. Isn’t this supposed to be a new era of transparency in the group now that John is gone, or did I miss more news? 

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57 minutes ago, bendawson3 said:


Not all of us pay attention to what happens with the rules and rumors to the Nth degree.  Can somebody say more explicitly what happened with the e30 rules? What changed? In what way did it get snuck in? When? By whom? For whom?

 

i race an m50 e30 but I also care zero percent about how many points our car is. 
 

not leading or sarcastic questions. I really don’t know, but I want to. There’s always a lot of this kind of talk on here but nobody is ever explicit. Isn’t this supposed to be a new era of transparency in the group now that John is gone, or did I miss more news? 

 

I don't remember the exact timeline, but the M50 swap used to be over 500 points.  Then, the swap weight was fudged upwards to a hilariously high number to allow the swap calculator to output exactly 500 points.

 

It was done arbitrarily, and as far as I'm aware without BOD approval.  Who lobbied for it, I have no idea, and exactly when the change was made, I don't know.  The change was stumbled upon by a member, which set off a bit of a crap storm.

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1 hour ago, bendawson3 said:


Not all of us pay attention to what happens with the rules and rumors to the Nth degree.  Can somebody say more explicitly what happened with the e30 rules? What changed? In what way did it get snuck in? When? By whom? For whom?

 

i race an m50 e30 but I also care zero percent about how many points our car is. 
 

not leading or sarcastic questions. I really don’t know, but I want to. There’s always a lot of this kind of talk on here but nobody is ever explicit. Isn’t this supposed to be a new era of transparency in the group now that John is gone, or did I miss more news? 

Here's an email that I sent in on May 23, 2018:

 

"I'm writing to you about the recent furor involving the swap weight change on the E30. A simple adjustment that should have been made to one car, the E30, was made using the wrong means IMHO and will have some major unforeseen consequences.

 

Here's the situation:

The E30 recently was adjusted to allow the use of the M50 without incurring a penalty lap by staying at 500 points after swap calculation. That's fine, but it should have been accomplished by a specific change (#1), not a global one (#2).

 

1. The base VPi should have been lowered by the amount needed to get the swapped car to 500 points: 450 before, 443 after. Very clear as to what happened and why, with no other cars being affected in either direction. The E30s that swap to the M50 end up at 500 points so they can't do anything other than swapping, and the E30s that don't swap have an extra 7 points to play with, a very minor difference.

2. By adjusting the swap list weight, a precedent was set to allow every other car on the list to do the same. At present, the criteria for weight on the list is so lax as to be useless for its original purpose. To return the swap formula to usefulness, a reasonable and more realistic method of selecting the appropriate swap weights should be used.

 

I believe that for the good of Champ, VPi should be the main means to make adjustments and that the swap weight list criteria should be reviewed with the intent of stabilizing that list."

 

To be specific, someone decided that the weight in the swap calculator could use the heaviest number found, including AWD and convertible weights. The E30 was given a swap calculator weight of 2731 lbs (90% of 3034 lbs) which is by no coincidence the number needed to allow the M50 swap for the base 50 points or 500 points total.

 

Given that most E30s are known to be at or slightly below 2300 lbs at race weight, that skews the swap calculator by allowing a weight to be used that is almost 20% higher than actual. 

Edited by mender
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8 minutes ago, mender said:

Here's an email that I sent in on May23, 2018:

"I'm writing to you about the recent furor involving the swap weight change on the E30. A simple adjustment that should have been made to one car, the E30, was made using the wrong means IMHO and will have some major unforeseen consequences.

 

Here's the situation:

The E30 recently was adjusted to allow the use of the M50 without incurring a penalty lap by staying at 500 points after swap calculation. That's fine, but it should have been accomplished by a specific change (#1), not a global one (#2).

 

1. The base VPi should have been lowered by the amount needed to get the swapped car to 500 points: 450 before, 443 after. Very clear as to what happened and why, with no other cars being affected in either direction. The E30s that swap to the M50 end up at 500 points so they can't do anything other than swapping, and the E30s that don't swap have an extra 7 points to play with, a very minor difference.

2. By adjusting the swap list weight, a precedent was set to allow every other car on the list to do the same. At present, the criteria for weight on the list is so lax as to be useless for its original purpose. To return the swap formula to usefulness, a reasonable and more realistic method of selecting the appropriate swap weights should be used.

 

I believe that for the good of Champ, VPi should be the main means to make adjustments and that the swap weight list criteria should be reviewed with the intent of stabilizing that list."

 

I wrote a petition, and received confirmation that it was submitted stating almost exactly that last cycle.  It was "conveniently" missed and not released with the rest of the petitions.

 

I was super impressed with the whole situation.

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The E30 M50 mess was done before the Board was really in full swing.  Since then we've pushed for and received much more visibility in these items.  In fact I would say that car valuation change (weight change) spurred a lot of change.  

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16 hours ago, SonsOfIrony said:

 

I wrote a petition, and received confirmation that it was submitted stating almost exactly that last cycle.  It was "conveniently" missed and not released with the rest of the petitions.

 

I was super impressed with the whole situation.

 

My petition, which would have addressed the weight issue was submitted and voted down.    Any organization the doesn't want to use accurate data across the board for all makes and model deserves to be questioned and will continue to be.   Everyone needs to be on the same rules.   

Edited by Snake
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43 minutes ago, Jer said:

The E30 M50 mess was done before the Board was really in full swing.  Since then we've pushed for and received much more visibility in these items.  In fact I would say that car valuation change (weight change) spurred a lot of change.  

 

It spurred the change of writing a rule that allowed the manipulation of the rules that the CEO had already done putting different makes and models on a different set of rules.   Not the change I'm looking for. 

Edited by Snake
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45 minutes ago, Jer said:

The E30 M50 mess was done before the Board was really in full swing.  Since then we've pushed for and received much more visibility in these items.  In fact I would say that car valuation change (weight change) spurred a lot of change.  

 

Except the change it spurred was to make the weight value for all cars meaningless, instead of fixing the few cars with incorrect weights.  That "change" went in the wrong direction.

 

Instead of closing a door that allowed certain cars to receive special treatment, that cracked door was actually thrown wide open and written into the rules so that those teams who are buddy buddy with the right officials have a green light to request favorable changes to the "swap weight" for their chosen platform.

 

It's literally a rule legalizing backroom handshake deals.  It's just a nice firm reminder that in racing, just like many other aspects of life, it's not always what you know, but who you know, that will determine your success.

 

Just look at what the parts badger team have struggled with.  They've had to fight thrice as hard to achieve good results, largely because they're not a part of the "good ol boys club".  I'm actually surprised they're still a part of the series after the way they've been treated.

 

@Jer I know this stuff isn't within your control, but if anyone who's already on the board is going to fight the good fight I believe it's going to be you.

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4 hours ago, SonsOfIrony said:

@Jer I know this stuff isn't within your control, but if anyone who's already on the board is going to fight the good fight I believe it's going to be you.

 

I'll believe that when I see him working to fix the free manifolds with some engine swaps.

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5 hours ago, Jer said:

The E30 M50 mess was done before the Board was really in full swing.  Since then we've pushed for and received much more visibility in these items.  In fact I would say that car valuation change (weight change) spurred a lot of change.  

In my view, it was just a continuation of the issue that started with using advertised curb weight rather than actual race weight which happened well before the E50/M50 mess. 

 

Some may remember my concerns about luxury models that could easily shed 20% of their curb weight while other cars struggled to drop even 10%, immediately skewing the result. That got "addressed" by using 90% of the advertised curb weight, which did absolutely nothing to even out the disparity but was seen as a reasonable solution and effectively ended further discussion of that issue. Well played.  

 

The visibility that may have been received from the next level of swap weight antics that saw a car with a race weight of about 2300 lbs be allowed to use a base weight of 3034 lbs just got covered back up with rule 4.5.2.1. Again, to whoever pushed that through, well played. 

Edited by mender
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These sort of changes won't be made behind the scenes in the future.  Please take that in particular (e30 weight) up with the CEO.  From working with him the last few years, I know his intentions are to allow cars to race that are not overdogs without penalty.  Unless a car dominates, it probably won't be adjusted (except for the T-bird for some reason).  

 

In other news, no one is using a true racing header in a swap without penalty, Grufton.  You will never believe that though, apparently.  

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9 minutes ago, Jer said:

These sort of changes won't be made behind the scenes in the future.  Please take that in particular (e30 weight) up with the CEO.  From working with him the last few years, I know his intentions are to allow cars to race that are not overdogs without penalty.  Unless a car dominates, it probably won't be adjusted (except for the T-bird for some reason).  

 

In other news, no one is using a true racing header in a swap without penalty, Grufton.  You will never believe that though, apparently.  

 

The current Board is holding the CEO accountable and bringing up issues as we see as well.  As far as I know there has been no SPV adjustments since we set the calculator and VPI for the year.   This should not change in 2020 either. 

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7 minutes ago, Jer said:

In other news, no one is using a true racing header in a swap without penalty, Grufton.  You will never believe that though, apparently.  

 

So what defines a "racing header"?  If it's not stock it should be points, period.

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11 minutes ago, E. Tyler Pedersen said:

 

The current Board is holding the CEO accountable and bringing up issues as we see as well.  As far as I know there has been no SPV adjustments since we set the calculator and VPI for the year.   This should not change in 2020 either. 

 

The rule that was introduced last year and approved needs to go asap.  I will write another petition this year to give you guys the chance to correct the mistake and keep all makes and models on the same rule set.   

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11 minutes ago, Snake said:

 

The rule that was introduced last year and approved needs to go asap.  I will write another petition this year to give you guys the chance to correct the mistake and keep all makes and models on the same rule set.   

 

I would recommend that you give us ONE source that we can pick all of these models and makes from for a reliable source which was not in the last petition.  Per TAC notes when we discussed it was hard to find ONE reliable source to pick and choose to get all of the weights for every make and model.  

 

Also I would recommend working with @mcoppola as he was going to write something up as well and is on the TAC and can help provide good insight.  

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16 minutes ago, E. Tyler Pedersen said:

 

I would recommend that you give us ONE source that we can pick all of these models and makes from for a reliable source which was not in the last petition.  Per TAC notes when we discussed it was hard to find ONE reliable source to pick and choose to get all of the weights for every make and model.  

 

Also I would recommend working with @mcoppola as he was going to write something up as well and is on the TAC and can help provide good insight.  


The weights you're currently gathering from cars at races.

Edited by Slugworks Paul
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1 hour ago, E. Tyler Pedersen said:

 

I would recommend that you give us ONE source that we can pick all of these models and makes from for a reliable source which was not in the last petition.  Per TAC notes when we discussed it was hard to find ONE reliable source to pick and choose to get all of the weights for every make and model.  

 

Also I would recommend working with @mcoppola as he was going to write something up as well and is on the TAC and can help provide good insight.  

 

We had one source that was used until backdoor deals started happening and changes were made overnight and unannounced.  My petition was actually nothing new, it was simply pointing out that the current rules weren't being followed as I referenced in my petition.  Instead of following the rules as they were already written the BOD decided to change the rule to introduce ambiguity into the rule set because the CEO had already done it behind closed doors.    

Edited by Snake
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10 hours ago, SonsOfIrony said:

 

It's literally a rule legalizing backroom handshake deals.  It's just a nice firm reminder that in racing, just like many other aspects of life, it's not always what you know, but who you know, that will determine your success.Just look at what the parts badger team have struggled with.  They've had to fight thrice as hard to achieve good results, largely because they're not a part of the "good ol boys club".  I'm actually surprised they're still a part of the series after the way they've been treated.

 

@Jer I know this stuff isn't within your control, but if anyone who's already on the board is going to fight the good fight I believe it's going to be you.

Parts Badger has mostly been attacked by other teams.  They didn't help themselves with a lot of contact early on.  As for the tech, they got things from Parts Badger never seen before in the series-a front wing, and cut off back end with no protection, etc.  I love their innovative way of thinking but tech had to deal with the safety aspects of it.  Frankly I thought the front wing should be allowed but I'm not tech.  

 

If you think there are teams that work back door deals with the org, you are not correct.  I think there are cars that are not overdogs and fairly popular that were given some leeway like the e30M50 swap.  Did it make the organization worse?  I would say no.  Sorry. Adjust the weight on a specific make/model for a swap value end result is really no different than adjusting a VPI number.  In effect the VPI is being set for that particular swap.  

Edited by Jer
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2 hours ago, Slugworks Paul said:


Sorry, the weights that champcar tech are currently gathering at races. :)

So which weight should be used?  The lightest?  Let's penalize the hardest working teams.  The heaviest?  Let's open the barn door for those more innovative teams.  I would argue it's not broken now, and the plethora of different makes/models on the various podiums seems to back that up.  

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