BOD question for the nominees - How to handle pit stops during full course yellows

[skierman64]

At Road America this fall the race director closed pit exit during a full course yellow holding all cars at pit exit until the pace car and the field passed by.  To my knowledge this was not announced in advance of the race so teams could adjust strategies to account for the extra lap penalty of the pit stop under FCY.  This does not seem like the best way to handle the situation in the future.  I'd rather see teams be allowed to exit the pits and catch up to the pace car.   Alternatively, I'd prefer that pit entry be closed until the mess is cleaned up and then allow another lap or 2 under yellow for pit stops to occur and extend drivers stint limits under FCY if needed.  

For the BOD nominees, what is your take on this issue, is there a better way to handle it in the future.  

Edited November 20, 2019 by skierman64

[enginerd]

1 hour ago, skierman64 said:

At Road America this fall the race director closed pit exit during a full course yellow holding all cars at pit exit until the pace car and the field passed by.  To my knowledge this was not announced in advance of the race so teams could adjust strategies to account for the extra lap penalty of the pit stop under FCY.  This does not seem like the best way to handle the situation in the future.  I'd rather see teams be allowed to exit the pits and catch up to the pace car.   Alternatively, I'd prefer that pit entry be closed until the mess is cleaned up and then allow another lap or 2 under yellow for pit stops to occur and extend drivers stint limits under FCY if needed.  

For the BOD nominees, what is your take on this issue, is there a bette way to handle it in the future.  

Not a candidate, but any plan where yellow is kept out for longer than necessary just so that teams can pit under yellow (ala NASCAR) is stupid. Give me green flag racing. 

 

I assume at Road America this was done because they didn’t want  cars buzzing the safety crews while driving 90% to catch the back of the field after a pit stop. This is reasonable, but it should have been announced ahead of time so that teams could plan their stops. 

[Chris Huggins]

Maybe I am confused, but this doesn't seem like a BOD Issue?

Are you asking for a rule to be put in to the BCCR that requires the race director to do a specific action? (for example, allow 2 laps under yellow after the incident is cleaned up?)

If so, I am not for such a requirement.

 

The race director has freedom to make decisions on the fly.  If he closed pit out for some reason, I am sure it was justified.  We have good race directors who know what they are doing.

 

If it was NOT justified, do you have reasoning and evidence that you wish to bring up?

 

Sometimes yellows cost you track position.  Sometimes you get lucky and gain some position.  I have learned that its pretty random, and that while it can be SO frustrating at the time, it usually works itself out in the end.  Therefore, I try to use yellows as a chance to breathe and calm down a bit.

[skierman64]

1 minute ago, Huggy said:

Maybe I am confused, but this doesn't seem like a BOD Issue?

Are you asking for a rule to be put in to the BCCR that requires the race director to do a specific action? (for example, allow 2 laps under yellow after the incident is cleaned up?)

If so, I am not for such a requirement.

 

The race director has freedom to make decisions on the fly.  If he closed pit out for some reason, I am sure it was justified.  We have good race directors who know what they are doing.

 

If it was NOT justified, do you have reasoning and evidence that you wish to bring up?

 

Sometimes yellows cost you track position.  Sometimes you get lucky and gain some position.  I have learned that its pretty random, and that while it can be SO frustrating at the time, it usually works itself out in the end.  Therefore, I try to use yellows as a chance to breathe and calm down a bit.

 

I"d like to see the randomness minimized and therefore a procedure put in place that all teams would know about beforehand added to the BCCR if needed.  Specifically for flow control actions taken under FCY.  

[jakks]

Was this done for every fcy? Normally pit out/in is closed by the track, not the Race Directors.

 

 

[tommytipover]

1 minute ago, skierman64 said:

 

I"d like to see the randomness minimized and therefore a procedure put in place that all teams would know about beforehand added to the BCCR if needed.  Specifically for flow control actions taken under FCY.  

 

If they are going to do something like closing pit out at Road America during FCY. Then that should be in the supps for that event, and covered at the driver's meeting.

It makes sense at such a long track but communicating things like this to the teams would really be appreciated.

[Team Infiniti]

 This was the tracks decision, like Huggy says, win some lose some.

 

  Obviously we weren’t there but Live broadcast captured that moment, Felt the tension all the way to Florida...

Edited November 20, 2019 by Team Infiniti

[riche30]

3 hours ago, skierman64 said:

At Road America this fall the race director closed pit exit during a full course yellow holding all cars at pit exit until the pace car and the field passed by.  To my knowledge this was not announced in advance of the race so teams could adjust strategies to account for the extra lap penalty of the pit stop under FCY.  This does not seem like the best way to handle the situation in the future.  I'd rather see teams be allowed to exit the pits and catch up to the pace car.   Alternatively, I'd prefer that pit entry be closed until the mess is cleaned up and then allow another lap or 2 under yellow for pit stops to occur and extend drivers stint limits under FCY if needed.  

For the BOD nominees, what is your take on this issue, is there a better way to handle it in the future.  

Pretty sure I know the situation you're referring to here.   The track, NOT CCES, made the decision to close pit out during that particular FCY for safety reasons.  It wasn't the best scenario for those on track running near the front but it was the hand we as a series were dealt.

This isn't a BoD related scenario anyways.  These decisions fall directly on our race directors.  The BoD runs the organization and not the day to day operations.

-Rich

 

 

Edited November 20, 2019 by riche30
spelling error

[Jer]

11 minutes ago, riche30 said:

Pretty sure I know the situation you're referring to here.   The track, NOT CCES, made the decision to close pit out during that particular FCY for safety reasons.  It wasn't the best scenario for those on track running near the front but it was the hand we as a series were dealt.

This isn't a BoD related scenario anyways.  These decisions fall directly on our race directors.  The BoD runs the organization and not the day to day operations.

-Rich

 

 

I was there.  It was announced at the drivers meeting that they were closing Pit out on ALL FCY.  It wasn't a one off.  And it probably really messed up a bunch of strategies.  I didn't like it, we have cautions speeds that are supposed to make the track more safe for the workers, and cars that are flying should be black-flagged anyway.  

[hotrod]

59 minutes ago, Jer said:

I was there.  It was announced at the drivers meeting that they were closing Pit out on ALL FCY.  It wasn't a one off.  And it probably really messed up a bunch of strategies.  I didn't like it, we have cautions speeds that are supposed to make the track more safe for the workers, and cars that are flying should be black-flagged anyway.  

Jer...Was there a reason that the track wanted to do this on all the Full Course Yellows? I can see if there is equipment on the track for repairs to help keep the workers safe. Instead of having multiple groups of cars. To get the luck to pit under a yellow then be penalized for it is tough....... 

[Jer]

26 minutes ago, hotrod said:

Jer...Was there a reason that the track wanted to do this on all the Full Course Yellows? I can see if there is equipment on the track for repairs to help keep the workers safe. Instead of having multiple groups of cars. To get the luck to pit under a yellow then be penalized for it is tough....... 

I'm asking Mike M and will let you know.  I didn't like it, but we had a dreadful weekend so it didn't matter much personally. 

[Snake]

Seems more like a race director or track issue.   If it was announced at the drivers meeting then everyone had the opportunity to account for it.   If it wasn't, I would have been livid. 

 

This probably should have been brought up in the post race thread. 

Edited November 20, 2019 by Snake

[Guest E. Tyler Pedersen]

I wasn't there so second hand information. 

 

Pit lane was closed due to a bad accident on track and safety thought this was the best bet. 

 

What should of happened was a red flag instead of a local if the track was that bad. 

 

Its always up to the race director on these issues. We shouldn't have a mandatory rule for this stuff because at the end of the day a call by a human at the track still needs to happen. 

[Jer]

NOPE, it wasn't for one accident.  It was announced at the driver's meeting.  It was for the whole race.  The only question in my mind was whether it was announced Saturday morning or Sunday morning.  

[JDChristianson]

This isn’t new for Road America.  We have seen it in races we’ve worked and races we have run in.    They want everyone together so the safety crews can focus on clean up and not worry about getting run over.   Their crews are the best.      

 

I agree with everyone that has pointed out that this is not a BOD issue.  They should be plotting a course for the ship,  not deciding on the menu for the crew.  

[Guest E. Tyler Pedersen]

Pits being closed never happened at Rd America before so curious what made the track change for this weekend. I've spent my fair share of events at that track too.

[55mini]

Being at the event and on pit lane as it was said above it was a safety thing and yes maybe should have gone red. There was a major motor let go that

put down oil for a large area. Took the safety crew some major effort to clean the mess.

 

[enginerd]

4 hours ago, Jer said:

It was announced at the driver's meeting.

I wasn't racing at this event.. mostly a spectator, so I wasn't at the driver's meeting.

 

But if it was announced at the mandatory driver's meeting.... I wonder why so many drivers were surprised by this!?!!!

[skierman64]

13 hours ago, 55mini said:

Being at the event and on pit lane as it was said above it was a safety thing and yes maybe should have gone red. There was a major motor let go that

put down oil for a large area. Took the safety crew some major effort to clean the mess.

 

 

That's not correct, I was on track at the time. The FCY happened for the wreck of the #603 Boxster at the exit of the carousel. He came to a stop off track in the grass and I didn't see or feel any oil being put down (although it's possible as it was a pretty hard impact)

 

10 hours ago, enginerd said:

I wasn't racing at this event.. mostly a spectator, so I wasn't at the driver's meeting.

 

But if it was announced at the mandatory driver's meeting.... I wonder why so many drivers were surprised by this

 

I was at both meetings and don't remember it being said. Although my wife says my listening skills could use improvement. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by skierman64

[Andrew D Johnson]

There was nothing said at the drivers meeting. I'm not sure that has much to do with the BOD either but this is what happened from my perspective. 

 

 

Speedhive shows we were in 2nd place, but I believe that is because the Altima must not have been given its MOV+1 yet. 

 

We had a solid lead the entire stint right from the start. The yellow fell, and we waited a lap to pit so that the field would be bunched behind the pace car and at their slowest pace while we were pitting. We pitted, and had a clean stop. We sent the car to pit out, and it had about 30 seconds left on the timer. We were then held at pit out for some number of minutes beyond the timer going to 0. 

When things ended up going green we were in 11th place and about 1:30 behind the new leader, so we lost 2+ minutes of race time from being held at pit out. We ended up breaking down later in the race, but it didn't really matter because we could not have overcome the 2+ minute (penalty?)

Some cars were held for no time, some were held for a short period of time, and some were held for a long period of time. 

 

Our team captain did go to the tower looking for an explanation of what happened, and I'm not sure exactly what he was told. At the end of the day we were very unhappy customers and still have a very bad taste in our mouths from that event. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by red0

[Black Magic]

As a track that has gone through a nascar (xfinity, not cup) series race, perhaps this is policy they are trying to keep from Nascar (although it sounds like they executed it wrong). I do agree though, the move should have been to just have another FCY lap to get the cars close to each other, or  go red then FCY to create the herd. Nascar will hold a yellow longer if the field has not "packed up", and you can get hit with a penalty and or lose your position for not maintain proper gap to the next car (leaving the gap is actually a key way to cheat and get a great restart). For safety reasons you really should get the competitive part of the field caught up after a FCY. 

 

This happened to me at AMP is 2013 or 2014. A very pretty tarus SHO or t bird (can't remember) hit the wall near pit in. My driver immediately pit, 10 mins before the pit window, and we got fuel in before the course went red. We were at the end of pit road when the course went yellow again (releasing the cars), and I beat the pace car from pit lane (ended up right in front of him on track). Since I was not limited by another car under yellow, I was able to go at full pace everywhere but the incident (which was now gone). I finally caught the end of the field a lap or two later, as they were doing what must have been 40 mph near start finish right as the green flew. I was in 5th gear at full effort, and passed half the field before turn one. It was amazingly fun, got us into the top 5 at the end of the race, but in reality if I was directing the race I might have done something to make sure the field was packed to prevent my restart.  

 

Getting a race going at FCY isn't as easy as many would think. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Black Magic

[skierman64]

For the record, I was driving Andrew's car, so we are talking about the same issue.  

 

We had a 58 second lead on P2 when the FCY #3 was displayed at about the 2 hour mark in the race.  

Edited November 21, 2019 by skierman64

[Scribe]

I was driving the Altima during this incident, which happened at almost exactly 2 hours into the race.

 

I was just ahead of the leader trying to get back one of our penalty laps when I passed a damaged #603 car on the outside of the exit of the carousel and there were parts and debris covering the entire racing surface.  He had contacted the inside wall and bounced over the track to the other side.

 

I made the decision to pit immediately.  We were the first to make it to the end of the pit road after our stop where they held us for around 5 minutes until the entire field went by. The track officials did not want a bunch of cars driving around at full speed to catch the back of the field with all of the cleanup they had to do.

 

When they let us out was when the Rbank car (leader) came in. To say consistent, the track held the second group of pitstops at the end of pit lane.

The only winners were the cars just behind the leader who pit with the first group, as they got out at the front of the pack for the re-start.  This is how JSK took the lead.  The cars that were fast enough to not get lapped but couldn't go two hours had already pit, so they were able to get ahead of Rbank as well.

 

This was the only time all weekend that they closed the end of pit lane under yellow. There was one red flag incident (oil down) where they brought everyone to pit lane, which is what we're more used to seeing.

[jakks]

So many people with so many differing stories....... 

 

Sounds like a 1-in-301 race issue that doesn’t need addressed at every driver’s meeting.

[Slugworks Paul]

9 minutes ago, jakks said:

So many people with so many differing stories....... 

 

Sounds like a 1-in-301 race issue that doesn’t need addressed at every driver’s meeting.

 

Disagree. FCY with pace vehicle is nearly a every race occurrence (that I've been to!)

Though the stories aren't straight forward, I think Brian's explanation makes sense and is consistent with what Mike and Andrew are saying.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Slugworks Paul