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Red Flag Video #1912


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Is there any chance the REAL story will be posted by Champcar to clear the air on this situation?  If there are any other teams impacted by similar rules clarifications or if a team is in the process of a build (or rebuild) it would be great to have all the facts.

 

Or is the moral of the story just to make sure you are up-to-date on the rulebook and ask questions to the staff for the final answer?  I understand not wanting to look back at what turned into a mess.

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With all due respect if the explanation was that simple a post should of been put out Saturday night or Sunday morning. It would of stopped three days of hearsay & finger pointing.

I also don't think censorship is a healthy item especially for a Club. In the tread that was deleted there was some bad mouthing going on but I also saw some viable criticism on how to correct some issues. 

I typed out a long answer to a question asked went to post it & topic closed.

I'm running for the board because I enjoy ChampCar and want to see it prosper, comments both good & bad should be voiced. 

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1 minute ago, hotrod said:

With all due respect if the explanation was that simple a post should of been put out Saturday night or Sunday morning. It would of stopped three days of hearsay & finger pointing.

I also don't think censorship is a healthy item especially for a Club. In the tread that was deleted there was some bad mouthing going on but I also saw some viable criticism on how to correct some issues. 

I typed out a long answer to a question asked went to post it & topic closed.

I'm running for the board because I enjoy ChampCar and want to see it prosper, comments both good & bad should be voiced. 

 

I think there is a difference between bad comments and inflammatory comments.  I don't think anyone should censor comments that point out something that needs to be fixed and/or addressed. But I get the point about pitch forks and derogatory remarks, that should probably be censored. 

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32 minutes ago, Originalsterm said:

 

I think there is a difference between bad comments and inflammatory comments.  I don't think anyone should censor comments that point out something that needs to be fixed and/or addressed. But I get the point about pitch forks and derogatory remarks, that should probably be censored. 

It's not censoring comments. It's suspending people from the series for posts on social media. And CCES will determine what's derogatory. 

Submitting members to BOD for removal from a series that is supposedly "member owned"? So where does that stop? Is the next step to suspend people for making remarks critical of Tech and series management during events? 

If you don't have members, you don't have a series. And this seems like a pretty good first step. 

Edited by Snorman
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Also, for the record, I like ChampCar, I do not want an IMSA / NASCAR thing. Remember to provide the best experience for your base membership which accounts for 99% of entries and don’t pander to the pro teams. 

Edited by enginerd
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2 hours ago, Originalsterm said:

Is there any chance the REAL story will be posted by Champcar to clear the air on this situation?  If there are any other teams impacted by similar rules clarifications or if a team is in the process of a build (or rebuild) it would be great to have all the facts.

 

Or is the moral of the story just to make sure you are up-to-date on the rulebook and ask questions to the staff for the final answer?  I understand not wanting to look back at what turned into a mess.

 I asked if they would be posting the email chain between Tech and R3R. Was told everything was done through text and phone calls.  And he does not have the authority to ask for those text from someone's phone.  So we won't really ever know what exactly Tech said that confused the R3R team.

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I agree that some of us may have gotten a bit out of hand, but many of us have intense personalities, and racing is a big deal to us, money or no money.

 

That being said, all of this could likely have been avoided if the series was transparent about the technical rulings it was making.  Many of us have asked for consistency and transparency, and the decisions that lead up to Saturdays snafu were neither.

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I feel that the root problem is a lack of transparency here and there is room to improve for all parties. Members are frustrated because we still don't know what happen from champcar's perspective. 

 

Was the wrong thing to allow the parts or not allowing the protest?  how does this impact things going forward?    I'm about to start 2020 upgrades and would like to know what new free stuff I can get.

 

As a member I don't want to be told "don't worry about what happened" and just follow the rulebook while there is the appearance that teams are hustling tech through emails to get free stuff.

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Hey Mike

 

    Just watched the redflag video. Question:  Will the email communication chain be posted between R3R and Tech. I think there would be people that would like to know exactly what  R3R was told as opposed to speculating.  Transparency can be good policy.

 

Regards

 

Reply

 

No and it can’t.  Since most of it happened by cell phone (texts), I do not have access to the messages nor do I have the right to take them from someone’s private phone.

 

Mike

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Guys, this likely comes from staffs eagerness to help rather then a lack of transparency, right or wrong, txting and calling while working through a problem may have caused a snowball to start growing off of one item, be patient...bring protest forms to your next event, this will work itself out when possible non declared items are detected next event.

 

Not taking anything from the excellent racing of the Barber teams, just saying wait, and make sure not to repeat the chain of podium events/fails next time.

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A few observations.

1) Porsche is known for offering "superseded" and/or new parts to help their cars be competitive.  I recall when the turbo 944's first came out in showroom stock and couldn't run long on the stock fuel tank - walla - new "optional" larger gas tank appeared.  R3R "may" have been playing the game w/Porsche parts

2) ANY discussion of "possible" parts use with tech/Mike prior to arriving "in person" with the car should REQUIRE the vehicle be presented at tech with a record of the "discussion".  I did this when prepping a truck after having a couple of phone conversations with Jay - I then presented the truck with the mods discussed for approval BEFORE racing.

3) Despite Mike's explanation which is plausible as stated above, the springs shown in the photo above STILL have not been explained.  I get the possibility of a misunderstanding on the control arms, but "if" the spring photo shown above is accurate, there would appear to be no excuse for this passing tech without points (see #2 above) 

 

I appreciate Mike making a presentation regarding the situation, but ANY discussion of rules interpretation prior to a race MUST be followed up with a full tech inspection of the vehicle and documentation of the "interpretation" PRIOR to the vehicle being raced in the configuration in question.  While we certainly don't want to get "out of hand" with comments/discussion about the organization/competitors, bringing up expelling members after a heated discussion after a poorly handled situation in non-productive. 

 

I too plan to follow up with a call directly to Mike on this and a few other issues that have ben hot topics after "big dollar"' teams seemed to have exploited our rules/series.  

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