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0 point spring exemption

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I think springs should be open, period. Run what you brung. Mandate that material, steel, fiberglass etc be of like material to OEM. Height adjusters should be points. Coil over is too generic of a term. My Honda came stock with non adjustable coil overs. Spring over strut is technically a coil over. 

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19 minutes ago, Ronh911 said:


I have love/hate feelings about this possibility, I’ve spent a lot of money already (torsion bars aren’t cheap) trying to abide by the spring rules that I believe most competitors have interpreted the same way I did and would hate to have to ditch them.  But I also see the justification for making them points.  If we go this route then we as a club should revisit making ALL parts not OEM take points, like brakes, struts, wheels, spacers, injectors, fuel pumps, FPR, ECUs. 

The big problem with that is people say the series can't go backwards.

 

I changed my suspension three times in three years and still have all the parts, I'm willing to bet that other teams  are carrying the old parts as spares.

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48 minutes ago, enginerd said:

I support this as a future petioned rule change even though it would be quite detrimental to my BMW. 

I'm just getting tired of sneaky ways to slide free parts under the table. 

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19 minutes ago, mender said:

I'm just getting tired of sneaky ways to slide free parts under the table. 

There are still a lot of adjustments that need to be made. Debate is a good thing we can all learn from. I'm sure if you ask Drew he will agree that shocks are far more valuable than springs unless you are way off base rate wise. At first adjustable shocks were WAY over valued and is now closer to reality but I think 20 per corner is about right when comparing other point values as they stand now. I think right now springs are being way over valued, all things considered. I agree with Drew that rate is given no value while appearance is. If there isn't going to be rate checks and aftermarket or racing springs will fit stock sizes and locations, (like my Honda) then it can't be policed and should just be open as long as like materials are used.

 

Besides. a car with factory springs in a racing environment can be a little dangerous at the speeds we race and could to at least some degree,  be safer at higher speeds even allowing for higher overall speeds due to more predictable car control.

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I, too, found Boxster springs on the internet both in factory configuration and race configuration. This all goes back to a much earlier point about the team in question purposely misleading and misinforming Tech and others about part numbers and the superseding thereof. They know they did it and we know that they know that they did it.

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, SpeedMaverick said:

Besides. a car with factory springs in a racing environment can be a little dangerous at the speeds we race and could to at least some degree,  be safer at higher speeds even allowing for higher overall speeds due to more predictable car control.

As can a improperly set up car on any spring

 

What happens in the real Champ world when someone takes time to work through issues a little?    Using the car in my garage for example, we are stable at speed and top 5 with regularity, all while sitting upon some awful, cut up, factory springs.

 

Does the car pitch and roll into turns? As it should for 0pts

 

Want to see? Watch the live broadcast replay, first stint September Sebring 2019.

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We are closer to an interpretation.  Waiting on TAC feedback now.  No matter what we do, some people will be unhappy.  

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20 minutes ago, Jer said:

We are closer to an interpretation.  Waiting on TAC feedback now.  No matter what we do, some people will be unhappy.  

 

The safe bet is to ensure it somehow messes up the TBird again, then most everyone will be happy.  

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Just now, Ron_e said:

 

The safe bet is to ensure it somehow messes up the TBird again, then most everyone will be happy.  

Awww, my day is now complete.  Thanks for your contribution.  

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18 minutes ago, Ron_e said:

 

The safe bet is to ensure it somehow messes up the TBird again, then most everyone will be happy.  

 

You are really you're own worst enemy most of the time.  Take your blinders off and look at the big picture.  The whole series doesnt revolve around you or the tbird even if the series totlally f'd you on a VPI increase.  

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On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 10:18 AM, Jer said:

Awww, my day is now complete.  Thanks for your contribution.  

 

On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 10:37 AM, Snake said:

 

You are really you're own worst enemy most of the time.  Take your blinders off and look at the big picture.  The whole series doesnt revolve around you or the tbird even if the series totlally f'd you on a VPI increase.  

 

Screwed as in the past, yes with the blinders on.  The problem is the future, as @E. Tyler Pedersen said it got hammered with 100 points because a team dared to actually lead a race that one time, not win, just lead with the car.  That is a massive problem, dare to just lead a race again with the car and how many more points will it get?  Yeah, I am going to keep bitching about that little issue.

 

At Sebring  KRFL led by a single freaking lap 3.5 hours into the race.  There was an extended yellow from 3.5 into the race, if you pitted in the first half for fuel the field was going at a pretty good pace, if you pitted in the second half the field was crawling.  KRFL lucked out and made the call to pit for fuel in the second half. After that lucky call and Parts Badger dropping out (they were part of the cause of the yellow) KRFL led by 3 laps.  One of the cars they were leading by 3 laps was Crank Yankers, just saying.  Over the next 1.5 hours KRFL continued to pace Damson, Jacky Ickx, Crank Yankers by 3 laps, shortly after the engine on KRFL failed.  Zero evidence in the first 3.5 hours that they had the luxury to run the car at 90% and pace the field.

 

The moral of the story is do not ever lead a race by more than a lap or you will get hit with 100 points penalty.  Oh wait a minute, anybody else is allowed to lead a race by one and even multiple laps.  Just don't EVER do it in a TBird.  How do you deal with that?  That is the big picture.

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2 hours ago, Ron_e said:

 

 

 

Screwed as in the past, yes with the blinders on.  The problem is the future, as @E. Tyler Pedersen said it got hammered with 100 points because a team dared to actually lead a race that one time, not win, just lead with the car.  That is a massive problem, dare to just lead a race again with the car and how many more points will it get?  Yeah, I am going to keep bitching about that little issue.

 

At Sebring  KRFL led by a single freaking lap 3.5 hours into the race.  There was an extended yellow from 3.5 into the race, if you pitted in the first half for fuel the field was going at a pretty good pace, if you pitted in the second half the field was crawling.  KRFL lucked out and made the call to pit for fuel in the second half. After that lucky call and Parts Badger dropping out (they were part of the cause of the yellow) KRFL led by 3 laps.  One of the cars they were leading by 3 laps was Crank Yankers, just saying.  Over the next 1.5 hours KRFL continued to pace Damson, Jacky Ickx, Crank Yankers by 3 laps, shortly after the engine on KRFL failed.  Zero evidence in the first 3.5 hours that they had the luxury to run the car at 90% and pace the field.

 

The moral of the story is do not ever lead a race by more than a lap or you will get hit with 100 points penalty.  Oh wait a minute, anybody else is allowed to lead a race by one and even multiple laps.  Just don't EVER do it in a TBird.  How do you deal with that?  That is the big picture.

 

I am sure it's not because TAC actually went through all the VPIs and found loopholes and closed them. Nope cant be the reason. Must be the whole lead at Sebring for 3.5 hours and then it goes up 100 points. Yes the conspiracy still continues! 

 

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50 minutes ago, E. Tyler Pedersen said:

 

I am sure it's not because TAC actually went through all the VPIs and found loopholes and closed them. Nope cant be the reason. Must be the whole lead at Sebring for 3.5 hours and then it goes up 100 points. Yes the conspiracy still continues! 

 

 

OK, so once a car is proven competitive with a lead of a single lap THEN it gets slapped with 100 points, that is the procedure as of last year?  Just so I know to never lead a race, not sure how to ever win then.  Pretty sure other "loophole" cars have had a lead of one lap... MR2, SC300, E30, Miata, Eclipse, Porsche... how much did those cars go up?

 

 

E. Tyler Pedersen    3,457

 

Ron,

 

The first year TAC was introduced (August 2018) they went through all the rules and VPIs pretty extensively. That's why the members wanted an advisory committee for these issues. They suggested to the board what VPIs should be. We trusted the TAC and I believe took all but one or two maybe? I can't remember I have slept and drank some beer since. 

 

Kids for Life Racing had Sebring 2018 in hand by laps, but they broke so it's been proven it's a competitive car. 

 

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Ron_e said:

 

OK, so once a car is proven competitive with a lead of a single lap THEN it gets slapped with 100 points, that is the procedure as of last year?  Just so I know to never lead a race, not sure how to ever win then.  Pretty sure other "loophole" cars have had a lead of one lap... MR2, SC300, E30, Miata, Eclipse, Porsche... how much did those cars go up?

 

 

E. Tyler Pedersen    3,457

 

Ron,

 

The first year TAC was introduced (August 2018) they went through all the rules and VPIs pretty extensively. That's why the members wanted an advisory committee for these issues. They suggested to the board what VPIs should be. We trusted the TAC and I believe took all but one or two maybe? I can't remember I have slept and drank some beer since. 

 

Kids for Life Racing had Sebring 2018 in hand by laps, but they broke so it's been proven it's a competitive car. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nope the TAC looked at the VPI and gave us (the BOD) suggestions on where points should be. 

 

VPIs are set for 2020. Tbird is a great car to build if you do it right. Hopefully next year fall Rd America I'll see you there. 

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13 hours ago, Ron_e said:

Kids for Life Racing had Sebring 2018 in hand by laps, but they broke so it's been proven it's a competitive car. 

 

 

 

 

 

Should probably get a VPI reduction so it can be more reliable. /green font/

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On 12/6/2019 at 10:55 AM, Jer said:

We are closer to an interpretation.  Waiting on TAC feedback now.  No matter what we do, some people will be unhappy.  

 

Any update on this yet?

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2 minutes ago, Johnpickard79 said:

 

Any update on this yet?

We are closing in.  BOD members are expressing opinions today.  Worst case is next week.  Best case is today (but i doubt it).

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5 minutes ago, Jer said:

We are closing in.  BOD members are expressing opinions today.  Worst case is next week.  Best case is today (but i doubt it).

 

Thank you! 

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42 minutes ago, KoneKillah said:

Or 10 pts on a non threaded body damper?

Good question...  I would think so because it most likely doesn't conform to the stock shape and diameter, etc...  

 

I could see the argument for "it should be cheaper than a coilover " but that might be splitting hairs.

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