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Generally straight down.  It’s a physics thing 

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On 1/21/2020 at 8:16 AM, morganf said:

Ok, new ticket was rejected (told to refer to article=62), then figured out how to reopen the old flywheel ticket. Don't need titanium that is an edge case, just need to cover the most COMMON basic available mods first steel chromoly flywheel are available for most cars and in many cases cheaper than OEM or at least within 2X.

Tech has not approved and will not sanction the use of lightened OEM flywheels. 

 

Replacement non oem steel flywheels will be free.  Key word "Replacement"

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20 minutes ago, National Tech said:

Tech has not approved and will not sanction the use of lightened OEM flywheels. 

 

I agree with the concept, however this is a significant divergence from the typical philosophy that material removal is free.  I would suggest this be thoroughly publicized, maybe even with a red flag update.

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11 hours ago, National Tech said:

Tech has not approved and will not sanction the use of lightened OEM flywheels. 

 

Replacement non oem steel flywheels will be free.  Key word "Replacement"

You’re going to have to define “replacement” for us. Any flywheel that fits would be a replacement, right? Or do you mean something else?

Edited by enginerd
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1 hour ago, enginerd said:

You’re going to have to define “replacement” for us. Any flywheel that fits would be a replacement, right? Or do you mean something else?

I think they mean any OEM or "OEM replacement" (think Rockauto $89 Luk) is free?
 

And the official CCKB reply is:

"Replacement Lightweight aluminum and lightweight steel flywheels are 10 points.

the term Lightweight has not been fully defined, but the work continues

Jay Mauney
National Tech Director
ChampCar Endurance Series
561 240 9346"


Lol, the forum post key words vs official KB documentation:
Replacement non oem steel flywheels will be free.  Key word "Replacement".

Replacement Lightweight aluminum and lightweight steel flywheels are 10 points.

Edited by morganf
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Interesting, from the knowledge base-
"Please read the BCCR particularly the rules in section 4 for the FPVL or Fixed Point Value List. In that section, you will find the allowed modifications and the points for them.

 

If you have a modification you need to make to your car and there is no FPV on the FPVL you must request permission to use the part and if granted you will receive a new points valve."

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Is there somewhere else I should be asking for clarifications/interpretations for the BCCR that are not model specific? I’ve been asked what model car I have or am swapping to for multiple requests but those are dependent on the answers given. 
 

Example: Asking whether the clutch and flywheel are included with a swapped engine even though it doesn’t specifically state this in the BCCR. 
 

Do I just need to hold onto these until petition time or do I just make up models? I’d prefer a model unspecific response to multiple questions which would dictate how I build my car in the future. 

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1 hour ago, cowboys647 said:

Is there somewhere else I should be asking for clarifications/interpretations for the BCCR that are not model specific? I’ve been asked what model car I have or am swapping to for multiple requests but those are dependent on the answers given. 
 

Example: Asking whether the clutch and flywheel are included with a swapped engine even though it doesn’t specifically state this in the BCCR. 
 

Do I just need to hold onto these until petition time or do I just make up models? I’d prefer a model unspecific response to multiple questions which would dictate how I build my car in the future. 

I would just use an example model since the answer should apply to all.

Not sure why Tech wants to do more work by making all questions/answers model specific. (answering the same question for multiple makes/models)

Edited by morganf
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1 hour ago, KoneKillah said:

"Aluminum or lightweight replacement flywheels are 10 points."
ie. this is lightweight replacement steel and 10pts:
Image result for lightweight flywheel
Why tech words in the most confusing way possible after asking for "clarification" is beyond me.

Also it will never be checked or protested so it's all a smoot point.

Edited by morganf
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On 1/23/2020 at 10:04 AM, enginerd said:

You’re going to have to define “replacement” for us. Any flywheel that fits would be a replacement, right? Or do you mean something else?

We dont want teams to drill holes to lighten their stock flywheels.  Allowing that type of modification can have dangerous results.

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16 hours ago, National Tech said:

Replacement means you by a lightweight fly wheel not lighten a oem flywheel.

Lightening the stock flywheel that would be free under the current hand tool rules anyway(drill/dremel). Similar to knife edging ths crank you would just have to get it balanced after.😁

 

P.S. Not trying to be difficult just pointing out how open/inconsistent the current rule book is.

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On 2/19/2020 at 6:41 AM, B-Rad said:

What's a reasonable amount of time to wait for a ruling on a ticket?

The auto-reply email indicates we should have a response in 48-72 hours, which is clearly optimistic.

I have two items that are getting quite stale, and might need to be resubmitted:

  1. How many points for a non-OE water pump?  Submitted 1/11/20 with no response yet.
  2. Are transmission swaps within the same chassis generation, but not the same model charged 25 pts?  Submitted 1/13/20 with no response yet.

That said, I got a response to an inquiry on the miata "chop top" in about four hours.

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24 minutes ago, Grufton said:

The auto-reply email indicates we should have a response in 48-72 hours, which is clearly optimistic.

I have two items that are getting quite stale, and might need to be resubmitted:

  1. How many points for a non-OE water pump?  Submitted 1/11/20 with no response yet.
  2. Are transmission swaps within the same chassis generation, but not the same model charged 25 pts?  Submitted 1/13/20 with no response yet.

That said, I got a response to an inquiry on the miata "chop top" in about four hours.

 

I submitted a ticket on 1/29 that falls in line with your 2nd ticket (except it was specific to the E36 Getrag vs ZF). I had a response within 24hrs. But no ruling. I believe there are some ongoing discussions between Tech, TAC, and the BOD about this rule. Hopefully something comes out of it soon. I need to pick a direction with my car. 

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18 minutes ago, B-Rad said:

 

I submitted a ticket on 1/29 that falls in line with your 2nd ticket (except it was specific to the E36 Getrag vs ZF). I had a response within 24hrs. But no ruling. I believe there are some ongoing discussions between Tech, TAC, and the BOD about this rule. Hopefully something comes out of it soon. I need to pick a direction with my car. 

 

I'm in the same boat.  My question was actually specific to the E46 Getrag/ZF, but I assume the logic should apply for everyone.  It's somewhat less urgent for me since my current plan is to build a 328 with the ZF, but I'm weighing options to build as a 325 (and don't currently have a Getrag).

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It sounds like there are some ground rules to asking/answering questions that aren't clear (at least, to me).

Bill mentioned in his update thread (sorry for spamming your thread @Bill Strong) that questions considered 'phishing' are not allowed.

Can we get a definition of what is considered 'phishing'? I may have asked some but I'm not really sure what that is.

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10 minutes ago, Slugworks Paul said:

It sounds like there are some ground rules to asking/answering questions that aren't clear (at least, to me).

Bill mentioned in his update thread (sorry for spamming your thread @Bill Strong) that questions considered 'phishing' are not allowed.

Can we get a definition of what is considered 'phishing'? I may have asked some but I'm not really sure what that is.

 

 

this would be a phishing question.
Tech gave an answer but the question asker wants to argue the answer.
Tech gave an answer and they moved onto the next question. They were getting stuck on people arguing, or fishing for a way around the answer, and it was holding up tech.
so now =once the question is answered it is closed. they move on to the next question. it has been working well the past month and a half.

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Thanks Bill. I guess I don't understand the use of that word as it is usually used in reference to fraudulent emails trying to get personal information.

no arguing in tech desk submissions - got it. I haven't had a problem with that, just with trying to get clarifications when the answers don't actually answer my original question.

 

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