Technical Advisory Committee Chris Huggins Posted January 13, 2020 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted January 13, 2020 Can we have a technical discussion on sealants and their properties? I am making a secondary containment box for my surge tank and attempted to seal it up with the intumescent sealant I have seen used before. It didn't work well, as seen it can be just wiped off with a finger. This is after a week plus of dry time. What is the right stuff to use? I want it to be fire-safe and waterproof to ensure the box is completely sealed off (except for a drain out the bottom) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted January 13, 2020 Report Share Posted January 13, 2020 I used the ‘great stuff’ expanding foam orange stuff for our bulkheading. Seemed to work great but I have done no testing whatsoever (for waterproofing or fire resistance). It cures hard and excess can be cut away with a knife. We passed tech. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted January 13, 2020 Report Share Posted January 13, 2020 14 minutes ago, enginerd said: I used the ‘great stuff’ expanding foam orange stuff for our bulkheading. Seemed to work great but I have done no testing whatsoever (for waterproofing or fire resistance). It cures hard and excess can be cut away with a knife. We passed tech. I used this on some house repairs on the backside of a fireplace. I tested it with a torch. It discolored and kinda chars, but doesn't burn. I think it probably works better than a rubber grommet. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Beisler Posted January 13, 2020 Report Share Posted January 13, 2020 I used something similar and it got rock hard and chipped off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindspin311 Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 Hmm, not promising, I bought some of that to seal up a patch panel to block off the hole left by a heater box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, mindspin311 said: Hmm, not promising, I bought some of that to seal up a patch panel to block off the hole left by a heater box. What's not promising? The original stuff mentioned or the fire expanding spray foam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindspin311 Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 10 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said: What's not promising? The original stuff mentioned or the fire expanding spray foam? Sorry, original stuff. Got a tube of the same thinking it was caulking like that would cure while still being somewhat flexible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbaker480 Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 I have used the expanding foam as well, but bought the tube of fire block expecting it to be similar to RTV, but it turned out to be more of a cement. I would think if you were blocking holes in a firewall and had plates with a good overlap cut you could get away with s layer of it between the patch and the panel but I wouldn't try to use it the way you would use caulking to seal up a bathroom. I don't have a solution but I'm interested to hear what others have come up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMiskoe Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 Hilti FS-1 is what I have used, not sure how it differs from what you have, but it stuck fine. I'm thinking you might want to scuff that surface with a wire brush/scotchbright/sand paper to give it some tooth and try again. The FS-1 is expected to stay put with modest use of a fire hose. Unfortunately it is designed for buildings that usually have less vibration than racecars. Pretty sure the expanding foam won't burn, but it doesn't have the expanding characteristic that the "intumescent" materials have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimS Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 Having to use fire stop sealants for decades as part of my day job. I always use the Hilti product line. Unfortunately it’s not usually sold at the big box stores. The 3M product does work to seal cracks and prevent spread of fire too. It is best to seal the bulkhead, containment box, etc as tightly as possible first. Then use the fire stop caulking to seal the small gaps. It is designed for sealing around pipes and conduits and generally doesn’t “harden” like silicone RTV. It will work for a fire stop but in a race car it can be a challenging product to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Chris Huggins Posted January 14, 2020 Author Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 Any downside to leaving the remnants of the intumecent in the cracks and coating the inside/outside of the seams with something that will harden and be water proof? Silicone/RTV is what I was thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimS Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 I don’t see any issue encapsulating the remnants. That fire stop is a pain in the backside to clean off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jer Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 I used the orange expanding foam too. You wind up tossing a nearly full bottle because it doesn't take much and the cans do not appear to be reusable. It works great, but keep it off your skin and clothes. Wear gloves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimS Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) You could use this brick material and cut strips to make gasket of sorts. https://www.hilti.com/c/CLS_FIRESTOP_PROTECTION_7131/CLS_FIRESTOP_BLOCKS_PLUGS_CUSHIONS_7131/r5253 or something like this that is a putty or play doh consistency. https://www.amazon.com/Sound-Fire-Rated-Acoustical-Putty/dp/B018WQ4D7O/ref=pd_aw_sim_469_3/140-9600024-4938246?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B018WQ4D7O&pd_rd_r=badd6304-71b4-439e-a7c5-53a19782a17d&pd_rd_w=nWlQw&pd_rd_wg=tIz9q&pf_rd_p=88ca09b8-cf17-4a5c-91ae-6ec10065b040&pf_rd_r=P64PHQW6TJHWJPEYPAGH&psc=1&refRID=P64PHQW6TJHWJPEYPAGH might be easier to work with Edited January 14, 2020 by TimS Additional info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members National Tech Posted January 14, 2020 Members Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 I have recieved permission to allow the used a variant the material used to wrap headers as it is heat resistant to 600 degrees F. The product is a mat that has a sticky heat and fuel resistant adhesive backing and it cat be cut to fit with scissors or a razor blade. The product brand I am familiar with is DEI i am sure their are many others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindspin311 Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 1 hour ago, National Tech said: I have recieved permission to allow the used a variant the material used to wrap headers as it is heat resistant to 600 degrees F. The product is a mat that has a sticky heat and fuel resistant adhesive backing and it cat be cut to fit with scissors or a razor blade. The product brand I am familiar with is DEI i am sure their are many others. https://www.designengineering.com/fire-tape-self-vulcanizing/ ??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slugworks Paul Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, mindspin311 said: https://www.designengineering.com/fire-tape-self-vulcanizing/ ??????? I don't think that's what he's referring to... I could be wrong. That's self-fusing silicone tape that's really meant to be wrapped around something and back onto itself, where it will fuse and basically have to be cut off. I use that sort of thing often in electrical applications on the ends of sheathing where normal electrical tape will start to unwind. He might be referring to this sort of thing?https://www.designengineering.com/reflect-a-cool-heat-reflective-sheets/ Edited January 14, 2020 by Slugworks Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindspin311 Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 13 minutes ago, Slugworks Paul said: I don't think that's what he's referring to... I could be wrong. That's self-fusing silicone tape that's really meant to be wrapped around something and back onto itself, where it will fuse and basically have to be cut off. I use that sort of thing often in electrical applications on the ends of sheathing where normal electrical tape will start to unwind. He might be referring to this sort of thing?https://www.designengineering.com/reflect-a-cool-heat-reflective-sheets/ That would be great for covering patch panels in firewalls where heater boxes, etc. used to be in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slugworks Paul Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, mindspin311 said: That would be great for covering patch panels in firewalls where heater boxes, etc. used to be in place. For sure, the sticky backing on those is very aggressive and I've even stuck that material to the bottom of the car which gets blasted with all kinds of stuff and hasn't come off in years. You probably can't use it in lieu of the metal firewall patches on any sizeable hole per rule 9.1.7.1 Edited January 14, 2020 by Slugworks Paul 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Chris Huggins Posted January 15, 2020 Author Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted January 15, 2020 @National Tech Can you link the product please? Do I stick it inside my secondary fuel containment or on the outside? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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