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Exhaust manifold swaps

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I still don't see what is wrong with gutting the cats...

 

Is that too hard for a team?  If so, they probably aren't exactly developing their car to the full extent of the rules....

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On 1/26/2020 at 1:28 PM, Slugworks Paul said:

 

I asked about ABS module swaps - how many points. Although i hear rumblings that the TAC/BoD has discussed and established a value so I think my question is no longer relevant.

This might answer your questions, but it is the most obfuscated response yet on the knowledge base. Is that negative(-) 10pts?

https://champcar.org/tech/knowledgebase.php?article=77
"ABS, DCS or any type of traction or braking control unit added to a non-ABS, DCS, traction control equipped vehicle is a minimum 25 points. 
(note the word minimum).


Any abs DCS traction control system upgrade including faster computer control units -10 points "

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10 hours ago, morganf said:

This might answer your questions, but it is the most obfuscated response yet on the knowledge base. Is that negative(-) 10pts?

https://champcar.org/tech/knowledgebase.php?article=77
"ABS, DCS or any type of traction or braking control unit added to a non-ABS, DCS, traction control equipped vehicle is a minimum 25 points. 
(note the word minimum).


Any abs DCS traction control system upgrade including faster computer control units -10 points "

Clearly.... an issue that all of us have..... I'm glad someone is looking out for the little guy with no or little abs...  do those situps, nobody wants to race with dudes who have beer guts.

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14 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

I still don't see what is wrong with gutting the cats...

 

Is that too hard for a team?  If so, they probably aren't exactly developing their car to the full extent of the rules....

 

Isn't it even easier than just gutting the cats?  Can't you just weld a tube in place of the cats?

 

The rule says:  4.7.4. Exhaust systems downstream of the header/exhaust manifold (from the collector back) are open and do not count towards total points

 

The collector is the portion of an exhaust where multiple flow paths converge to one.  Wouldn't that indicate that if there is a cat in an exhaust manifold (which would be downstream of the collector) that a cat could be replaced with a tube for zero points?

 

 

 

exhaust manifold.jpg

Edited by tneker
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36 minutes ago, tneker said:

 

Isn't it even easier than just gutting the cats?  Can't you just weld a tube in place of the cats?

 

The rule says:  4.7.4. Exhaust systems downstream of the header/exhaust manifold (from the collector back) are open and do not count towards total points

 

The collector is the portion of an exhaust where multiple flow paths converge to one.  Wouldn't that indicate that if there is a cat in an exhaust manifold (which would be downstream of the collector) that a cat could be replaced with a tube for zero points?

 

 

 

exhaust manifold.jpg

I mean gutting is just putting something heavy and slamming it through and shaking the parts out.  Either way, it's not rocket science!

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On 1/21/2020 at 5:34 PM, shanehutton said:

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My opinion:

1. 0 point option: top picture shows the stock E46 manifolds. Cut the cats out just below the collector and replace with straight pipe.

2. 10 point option:  replace stock manifolds with ones shown in bottom picture; essentially shorty headers. 10 points is a bargain and should be the minimum for anything other than stock.

3. 25 point option: replace stock manifolds with long tube style headers as shown in middle picture whether factory or aftermarket.

 

 

Edited by mender
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44 minutes ago, mender said:

2

 For those squeamish to potentially hurt reliability by cut/weld a factory manifold

Picture three  should be zero points, it’s not going to add a significant amount of power  , we are racing cars after all, my feelings are slightly more liberal after a few years of listening to The new tech team and everybody’s rationale 

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15 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

 For those squeamish to potentially hurt reli

Picture three  should be zero points, it’s not going to add a significant amount of power  , we are racing cars after all, my feelings are slightly more liberal after a few years of listening to The new tech team and everybody’s rationale 

Before you say that, Ed, get an E46 with the B30 engine and replace the stock manifolds with headers. Significant amount of power (12-15 hp likely), stock the engine is lazy past about 4500 rpm and with the headers it pulls strongly to 6500 rpm. BTDT with my son's car.

 

No more freebies. Performance gain should be points - for every car, no exceptions.

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13 hours ago, mender said:

My opinion:

1. 0 point option: top picture shows the stock E46 manifolds. Cut the cats out just below the collector and replace with straight pipe.

2. 10 point option:  replace stock manifolds with ones shown in bottom picture; essentially shorty headers. 10 points is a bargain and should be the minimum for anything other than stock.

3. 25 point option: replace stock manifolds with long tube style headers as shown in middle picture whether factory or aftermarket.

 

 

 

What's my 10 pt option? JDM headers? This is too slippery. Are we gonna start rating headers by power output and scale a points value to em? Nah. Gutted/straight piped cats = 0 pts. All else is 25 pts.

 

We didn't choose your car. 

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On 1/31/2020 at 8:25 PM, ABR-Glen said:

What if some newer cars don't have an alternate OEM part that fits that doesn't have a cat? Maybe that will be considered by the time it hits the BCCR and this is just a stopgap.

 

No stock catless option here (Base R56 Mini Cooper) and Im sure we arent the only ones. We were already upgrading this year and will be taking the 25pts but part of me wants to ask just to see...

 

If stock cats are now a safety concern, then where's the ban on anything rotary and anything turbo? Ive seen more turbos glow than cats, and we raced for years (as do many others in SCCA B-spec) with intact stock cats.

 

We put a lot of effort into safety on our car, but at some point you have to call it good enough. To me we're rapidly approching a point of hurting the series to improve safety.

 

Sorry for reviving this thread but at some point we must say enough is enough on free stuff.

IMG_3674.jpg

Edited by Wittenauer Racing
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22 hours ago, Wittenauer Racing said:

If stock cats are now a safety concern, then where's the ban on anything rotary and anything turbo? Ive seen more turbos glow than cats, and we raced for years (as do many others in SCCA B-spec) with intact stock cats.

 

You are confusing safety with "safety". One uses "safety" to try and get free stuff.

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23 hours ago, Wittenauer Racing said:

If stock cats are now a safety concern, then where's the ban on anything rotary and anything turbo?

Why the shot at anything rotary?  What do you have against our doritos?  Mine is perfectly safe, it doesn't even spin right now 🙄

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1 hour ago, bbaker480 said:

Why the shot at anything rotary?  What do you have against our doritos?  Mine is perfectly safe, it doesn't even spin right now 🙄

Exhaust heat.  They have crazy high exhaust temps.  There was actually a warning sensor for exhaust overtemp.

 

Haha.  I know you know that.

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Just now, wvumtnbkr said:

Exhaust heat.  They have crazy high exhaust temps.  There was actually a warning sensor for exhaust overtemp.

 

Haha.  I know you know that.

It's fun when your friends remind you how their car caused you instant 3rd degree burns 25ish years ago!  

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Rotarys? Nothing against them BUT have been caught servicing a bad fuel pump during a pit stop when one burst into flames 2 pit stalls back from us, I felt the heat on my back and heard the woof through my fire suit and helmet. The rotary team and their adjacent neighbors had it handled but my fire bottle guy went to turn around and help, had to remind him to stay focused.

 

No way would I want cats on any of our cars, 20 min is nothing to 2 hrs with potentially wonky tunes, gut the cat for 0pts or enjoy the hp with your 25 pts. Not being snarky, just being real.

Edited by Team Infiniti
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On 2/20/2020 at 1:09 PM, Team Infiniti said:

Rotarys? Nothing against them BUT have been caught servicing a bad fuel pump during a pit stop when one burst into flames 2 pit stalls back from us, I felt the heat on my back and heard the woof through my fire suit and helmet. The rotary team and their adjacent neighbors had it handled but my fire bottle guy went to turn around and help, had to remind him to stay focused.

 

No way would I want cats on any of our cars, 20 min is nothing to 2 hrs with potentially wonky tunes, gut the cat for 0pts or enjoy the hp with your 25 pts. Not being snarky, just being real.

Why would anybody leave them on? we ran our 1st race with a gutted cat... man that was a PITA but well worth it, there was a TON of restriction going on there. 

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On 2/24/2020 at 10:10 AM, TiredBirds said:

Why would anybody leave them on? we ran our 1st race with a gutted cat... man that was a PITA but well worth it, there was a TON of restriction going on there. 

 

Quite frankly with what the car has (or doesn't in our case), there wasn't much of a point in changing before so we didn't. Stock engines dont really out flow the factory header/cat as long as it's in good shape on most newer stuff. I would be really curious to see some back to back dyno comparisons of any "free" replacement for an integrated cat manifold. The OE stuff works fine, any gains should be points. Given how much the public seems to care about HP on anything "performance" I really doubt the OEM's are ok with leaving a bunch on the table these days.

 

Our car was built for B-spec and then brought out to play with Champcar, even did halfway decent till we rolled it in an off at Nelsons. Since then we said all in on endurance racing and are doing enough to the head and tuning to make a header necessary....

Edited by Wittenauer Racing
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