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14 minutes ago, DRVOLKS said:

I dont get it here, a certified fuel cell installed right is 10X better the a OEM plastic tank. We have had one fire to a modified OEM tank where  one person got burned right!

I work on OEM cars all day long and most cars the OEM tank is inchs from the road with a bear can thickness partly shield near the ex system and metal that is run over will punch a hole in a OME tank like a butter knife though butter. there fillers on mostly in the rear wheel well with plastic inner wheel cover inches away from the spinning rear tire in a side crash it ripps the vent tube and filler out of the OEM tank with no real roll over valve that seals. And AER are even harder on the Feul cell installs .

 

 

The series allows fuel cells. The debate is if a fuel cell with amateur plumbing is safe enough to allow you to sit in a virtual bath tub with the unit, or if all fuel tanks should be behind a bulkhead.

 

OE tanks that are not bullheaded also require one...

 

Edited by Black Magic
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SFI\FIA do not test the home brewed connections to that otherwise well engineered fuel container. OEM plumbing is tested and engineered.   I think a fuel cell in the stock tank location woul

Yes, your safety box needs a safety box....

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34 minutes ago, Slugworks Paul said:


I guess the point i'm trying to make is that we should focus on having fittings/hoses/lines reliable and not leak rather than ignore those and shroud them which can hide leaks until it's too late (or create them in the case of the filler neck overflow). 

With my eclipse - the hatch deck is higher than the rest of the car. It slopes downward to the rear seat area and down again to the level of the driver seat. I was thinking about my car and what would happen if the fuel cell starts leaking.

Otherwise I can't disagree that firewalls add a layer of safety. Interesting to hear from you about the other series' that have similar mandates.

 

Trying to find a good picture (that isn't sensitive), but in nascar the cell is in our trunk area and it is closed out like this

 

https://en.wheelsage.org/toyota/camry/34873/pictures/zonp38/

 

This is required by rules and also is needed to make the thermal pill (like a sprinkler) in the automatic fire suppression system activate. The heat of the flashover is designed to pop it. 

 

For decades teams have run the braided fuel lines through aluminum tubing, which is painted red to keep people from damaging it. 

 

Earnharts car from the 90s

 

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.sbnation.com%2Fassets%2F391790%2FJimmie_Johnson_Cockpit.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sbnation.com%2F2010%2F7%2F8%2F1557875%2Finside-the-cockpit-the-what-nascar&tbnid=BhAnA89FFsP5lM&vet=12ahUKEwiDj96Ok-PnAhUH0VMKHfmwCqwQMygFegUIARDuAQ..i&docid=xneaCUPRAaAfDM&w=1000&h=750&q=nascar interior&hl=en&ved=2ahUKEwiDj96Ok-PnAhUH0VMKHfmwCqwQMygFegUIARDuAQ

 

Ironically Earnhardt JR got burned in a corvette (daytona 2004) when the fill neck separated and was not bulkheaded away from the driver enough. One of the safety features we do get right, our filler neck is fully on the cell side of the bulkhead. 

 

I would suggest to people your best bet is to bulkhead the cell away from the driver compartment, keep all pumps and gear on the fuel cell side of the wall and pass just the hose through the firewall, using an aluminum tube as your continuous conduit that dumps any leaked fluid away from the driver compartment. I would also have drain holes to vent any fuel away from enclosed spaces, rather than allowing it to pool. Keep the risk of fire away from the interior of the metal bowl the driver is in.  

 

 

Edited by Black Magic
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3 hours ago, Black Magic said:

 

The series allows fuel cells. The debate is if a fuel cell with amateur plumbing is safe enough to allow you to sit in a virtual bath tub with the unit, or if all fuel tanks should be behind a bulkhead.

 

OE tanks that are not bullheaded also require one...

 

Yes bullhead the fuel cell and lines  fill is metal for Champ

vBQQOw9.jpg

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4 hours ago, Black Magic said:

 

Trying to find a good picture (that isn't sensitive), but in nascar the cell is in our trunk area and it is closed out like this

 

https://en.wheelsage.org/toyota/camry/34873/pictures/zonp38/

 

This is required by rules and also is needed to make the thermal pill (like a sprinkler) in the automatic fire suppression system activate. The heat of the flashover is designed to pop it. 

 

For decades teams have run the braided fuel lines through aluminum tubing, which is painted red to keep people from damaging it. 

 

Earnharts car from the 90s

 

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.sbnation.com%2Fassets%2F391790%2FJimmie_Johnson_Cockpit.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sbnation.com%2F2010%2F7%2F8%2F1557875%2Finside-the-cockpit-the-what-nascar&tbnid=BhAnA89FFsP5lM&vet=12ahUKEwiDj96Ok-PnAhUH0VMKHfmwCqwQMygFegUIARDuAQ..i&docid=xneaCUPRAaAfDM&w=1000&h=750&q=nascar interior&hl=en&ved=2ahUKEwiDj96Ok-PnAhUH0VMKHfmwCqwQMygFegUIARDuAQ

 

Ironically Earnhardt JR got burned in a corvette (daytona 2004) when the fill neck separated and was not bulkheaded away from the driver enough. One of the safety features we do get right, our filler neck is fully on the cell side of the bulkhead. 

 

I would suggest to people your best bet is to bulkhead the cell away from the driver compartment, keep all pumps and gear on the fuel cell side of the wall and pass just the hose through the firewall, using an aluminum tube as your continuous conduit that dumps any leaked fluid away from the driver compartment. I would also have drain holes to vent any fuel away from enclosed spaces, rather than allowing it to pool. Keep the risk of fire away from the interior of the metal bowl the driver is in.  

 

 

  Aww come on man you keep up with this making sense B S on here and your gonna lose fans..

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10 hours ago, Black Magic said:

I would suggest to people your best bet is to bulkhead the cell away from the driver compartment, keep all pumps and gear on the fuel cell side of the wall and pass just the hose through the firewall, using an aluminum tube as your continuous conduit that dumps any leaked fluid away from the driver compartment. I would also have drain holes to vent any fuel away from enclosed spaces, rather than allowing it to pool. Keep the risk of fire away from the interior of the metal bowl the driver is in.  


All great suggestions but I want to emphasize the fact that leaks should be taken very seriously and eliminated at all costs.. trying to funnel fuel out of the car (and probably closer to the hot ignition sources) only helps you so much because fire likes to follow fuel to it's source, which unfortunately still shares a vapor body with the driver. Not only do we not have pills but we don't have a requirement to have fire suppression nozzles pointed at the fuel cell (WRL does)

These suggestions should only and always be very much secondary to eliminating any and all leaks, and constantly monitoring your system for leaks that develop.

Edited by Slugworks Paul
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12 hours ago, Slugworks Paul said:

These suggestions should only and always be very much secondary to eliminating any and all leaks, and constantly monitoring your system for leaks that develop.

I couldn't agree more.

 

Whether its required or not, do what you feel is best for your unique vehicle.  Some small changes to how lines are routed and mounted can make it easier to enclose.  We all are trying to accomplish the same thing.  Live to race another day.  

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On 2/19/2020 at 12:32 PM, Gkuhn41 said:

Fluid Tight flex tubing was approved. We run our fuel lines run through 1" flexible stainless natural gas line. As was flexable exhaust tubing.  I will submit this to the tech desk today.

 


DId you get an answer? I got a reply but mostly just had the rules copy and pasted back to me (I cited them in my initial inquiry). Maybe it's because I didn't provide enough detail. I resubmitted.

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On 2/23/2020 at 1:08 PM, Slugworks Paul said:


DId you get an answer? I got a reply but mostly just had the rules copy and pasted back to me (I cited them in my initial inquiry). Maybe it's because I didn't provide enough detail. I resubmitted.

 

I got  the same and i sent them 2 links to different CSST tubing manufacturers as well as pictures of my set up and still didnt get a yes or a no.

 

Were running with it, it does exactly what the rules ask you to do. Contained in sealed metal conduit. 

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I worked for a company that made flexible gas connectors.  Those things are thoroughly leak tested, torsion tested, etc.  They usually burst at 1k to 4k psi pressure....  they should hold up to a leaky fuel line just fine.  Plus, the connectors on the end make it fairly easy to connect to a bulkhead fitting.

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On 3/2/2020 at 10:00 AM, wvumtnbkr said:

I worked for a company that made flexible gas connectors.  Those things are thoroughly leak tested, torsion tested, etc.  They usually burst at 1k to 4k psi pressure....  they should hold up to a leaky fuel line just fine.  Plus, the connectors on the end make it fairly easy to connect to a bulkhead fitting.

 

Can you post a link?

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