Jump to content
Kjhall

Understanding the rules..

Recommended Posts

14 minutes ago, mender said:

"4.6. PLATFORM SWAP

4.6.1. As an alternative to an engine swap, teams may qualify for a platform swap. A platform swap is defined as replacing the original components with all the components from the same chassis family (i.e. – 318 to 325 BMW engine swaps or 2.8L to 5.7L Chevy Camaro). To qualify as a platform swap, all of the differing vehicle components must be swapped to match the new platform. This includes engine, transmission, differential, suspension, fuel tank, etc. The VPI of the car will now be based on the car and engine combination as presented to tech, regardless of what engine may have been installed originally. No swap surcharges shall be applied to platform swaps."

 

My understanding is that early on, people were wanting to use a particular factory offering but were unable to buy that car. John originally said that you could duplicate the factory built car using another shell but it had to include everything down to the correct cigarette lighter. I think that was his concession re: using the car's VIN to check what it came from the factory with: you could put together a car but it had to be an accurate duplicate and not a mix and match.

 

After our win at Spokane, I watched some video from one of the other cars and it was quite obvious that it (an E36) was not using the stock diff because it was being shifted into 5th at about 118 mph. Pretty sure that wasn't the only car, and the end result years later is that OEM diff ratios are now allowed regardless of what the combo came with. 

 

There has always been and likely always will be people who push for loose interpretations. At one time  there was a note about "strained" interpretations to cover things like claiming that your manual car actually was an auto car (-75 points) and had a transmission swap (+25 pts), with that person getting a better transmission than the stock one plus a 50 point deduction. I think VINs were mentioned then as well to check on this kind of chicanery. Maybe Bill Strong can remember more of the details on that one.

 

Some say that interpretation is king, others insist that rules be written clearly and enforced to the letter. Champcar has to decide where they want to draw the line. Part of that might be to decide whether the line should be draw in sand or in stone.

 

 

I think 4.6.1 should be renamed “Intra Platform Swap” and use the word “model” instead of platform throughout the rule.

 

Cars can fully switch over to a different MODEL in the same generation/platform.

 

 

This was the original intent and I think somewhere along the way the wrong words were put in. 

Edited by enginerd
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fox body is from '77 to '93. SN95 is a different platform.

 

You also can't do a platform swap between 3rd Gen and 4th gen F-bodies despite how close they are related. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Think of it like this...

 

If you can take all the parts out of one chassis and put them in another chassis and it would be next to impossible to tell the difference, that's a platform swap.

 

Let me explain it another way...

 

You want to build a 1.8 miata 5 speed miata.  You can only find 1.6 automatics in good enough shape to build.

 

You build the 1.6 chassis and put in the 5 speed and 1.8 engine and rear diff (because they are different).

 

Impossible to tell the difference from a real from the factory 1.8 and the car you created.

 

That is a platform swap.

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, MoparBoyy said:

 

how is that not a platform swap?   I think even PartsBadger has claimed this with his NA miata.  hes starting at the VPI of a NB because he has the entire drivetrain out of a NB in his NA car.  I've always been aware thats how it is.

I figured they used the value of the na8, not the nb or na6.

 

After looking some things up, I am betting he is just claiming it as an na8 which is from 91 on.  Has the 1.8 liter engine.  The NB didn't start until 1998.

Edited by wvumtnbkr
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, MoparBoyy said:

 

how is that not a platform swap?   I think even PartsBadger has claimed this with his NA miata.  hes starting at the VPI of a NB because he has the entire drivetrain out of a NB in his NA car.  I've always been aware thats how it is.

 Dude you are so wrong ,totaly wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

I figured they used the value of the na8, not the nb or na6.

 

After looking some things up, I am betting he is just claiming it as an na8 which is from 91 on.  Has the 1.8 liter engine.  The NB didn't start until 1998.

 

yeah you are right, i was thinking 1.8 didnt come out till 99.. my bad.  i barely know about my NB2... LOL

 

anyways, so yeah platform swap is only within the same body style, guess back to the drawing board!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, MoparBoyy said:

 

yeah you are right, i was thinking 1.8 didnt come out till 99.. my bad.  i barely know about my NB2... LOL

 

anyways, so yeah platform swap is only within the same body style, guess back to the drawing board!

 

The "platform swap" within Miatas was really common. If you consider the NA chassis to have sub platforms of "NA6" and "NA8" (1.6 vs 1.8) you have different fuel tank capacities, engines, diffs....alot of parts. 

 

Since the NA chassis was the same you could swap a "NA6" to a "NA8" allowing you to make your car a 1.8 spec without having to buy a new shell, provided the final race car had all the parts that below in the 1.8 spec. The idea behind the platform rule was to keep people from having to buy Vin numbers, fake them, etc (all not fun to explain to the fuzz). Groups that force Vin numbers to match create all of these backdoor solutions, as cage swapping and building a new car is alot of work and money. 

 

 

Edited by Black Magic
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2021 ChampCar Definitions and Clarifications Manual. Volume 1.

 

Screen Shot 2020-03-05 at 12.08.50 PM.png

  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Bill Strong said:

2021 ChampCar Definitions and Clarifications Manual. Volume 1.

 

Screen Shot 2020-03-05 at 12.08.50 PM.png


didnt know you were a foot guy Bill....

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Bill Strong said:

2021 ChampCar Definitions and Clarifications Manual. Volume 1.

 

Screen Shot 2020-03-05 at 12.08.50 PM.png

Isn't that your build binder, Bill?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...