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General consensus seems to be that if you are over 500 points you can still run in EC you just can't win.

I remember years back that if you had too much engine in a car you couldn't even tun EC because the speed differential could be too great as to cause a dangerous situation.

I don't see this in the rules anywhere. My example is a Camaro V6 in a Miata.

 

  Make: Mazda
Model: Miata
Year: 1994
VPi: 300
Car Weight: 2064
Original HP: 126
New HP: 325
Points Added to VPi: 25879
--->NEW VPI: 26179

 

Would this still be allowed to run?  Just asking for future reference.

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  • Technical Advisory Committee

2.2.2. ChampCar reserves the right to deny entry to any EC car if ChampCar determines the car to be excessively superior in power, braking, top speed or other factors that ChampCar feels would be unsafe or disruptive to any event.

 

I'm not saying your car should not be fine in EC, just showing the applicable rule. 

Edited by red0
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59 minutes ago, gundy said:

General consensus seems to be that if you are over 500 points you can still run in EC you just can't win.

I remember years back that if you had too much engine in a car you couldn't even tun EC because the speed differential could be too great as to cause a dangerous situation.

I don't see this in the rules anywhere. My example is a Camaro V6 in a Miata.

 

  Make: Mazda
Model: Miata
Year: 1994
VPi: 300
Car Weight: 2064
Original HP: 126
New HP: 325
Points Added to VPi: 25879
--->NEW VPI: 26179

 

Would this still be allowed to run?  Just asking for future reference.

to get 325 out of a V6 you'd have to spin the pee out of it. Plus how big is the Miata tank? Plus it is still a Miata... 

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1 hour ago, TiredBirds said:

to get 325 out of a V6 you'd have to spin the pee out of it. Plus how big is the Miata tank? Plus it is still a Miata... 

The 2012+ Camaro LFX V6 is factory rated at 323 hp.

 

Here's the ATS version with 321 hp:

Comparing the Cadillac ATS 2L Turbo Torque to the 3.6L V6 ...

 

The LFX Miata is a stout track car.

https://motoiq.com/ryan-passeys-amazing-miata/

Edited by mender
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1 hour ago, Snorman said:

It's not like you're bringing out a 600-700 hp Camaro/Corvette/Mustang/Viper. 

2015 Mustang = 3530 lbs, /600 = 5.88 hp/lb

 

LFX Miata = 2100 lbs, /323 hp = 6.50 hp/lb.

 

Close enough.

Edited by mender
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14 minutes ago, TiredBirds said:

try running it at 6800 all afternoon. 

Most of the newer engines have a similar hp "curve", with the torque output essentially flat and the hp limited by rpm.

 

Average hp when shifting at 7000 rpm is about 280 hp so close to 90% of peak power over the usable rev range, transmission dependent of course.

Edited by mender
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31 minutes ago, mender said:

Most of the newer engines have a similar hp "curve", with the torque output essentially flat and the hp limited by rpm.

 

Average hp when shifting at 7000 rpm is about 280 hp so close to 90% of peak power over the usable rev range, transmission dependent of course.

not a chance it would hold up... to get any HP out of it you'd have to be over 6k for most of the time. 

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27 minutes ago, mender said:

275 ft.lbs; it's on the graph.

I dunno V6's show good numbers but are always disappointing in real time. Test drove a Grand Cherokee with a V6, said it had more HP and torque than the older 4.7 V8. Thing felt like a slug compared to the 4.7 and 5.2 I had. Same as the 3.7 V6 vs. the old 4.0l I6

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And I've had good results from V6s and straight sixes, both on the street and on the track. 

 

I'd say it depends on how you decide what's disappointing. I'm disappointed when everything happens right off idle and then the rest of the power band doesn't live up to the initial impression. That being said, I was pleased with my '54 235 that made 240 ft.lbs of torque at the 2000 rpm start of the dyno pull to the 156 hp peak at 4000 rpm. Stock is 112 hp @ 3200 rpm.

Edited by mender
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WRL has a huge speed difference, their slowest class is like mid cars in chump. Their fastest is filled with Corvettes and Porsches. In between is M3s and all kinds of cars.

 

I don't think it's an issue, are you running insane suspension, slicks and aero as well? Or just more power?

 

Do you have any laptimes from your car at any of the tracks that chump runs?In that case you compare.

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On 4/14/2020 at 5:19 PM, Snorman said:

My personal opinion is that you should be able to race it. The speed differential can't be that crazy. It's not like you're bringing out a 600-700 hp Camaro/Corvette/Mustang/Viper. 

 

shhh, we're waiting for more speed creep.   Then we're gonna be set.   

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On 4/14/2020 at 6:18 PM, mender said:

2015 Mustang = 3530 lbs, /600 = 5.88 hp/lb

 

LFX Miata = 2100 lbs, /323 hp = 6.50 hp/lb.

 

Close enough.

Thank you that is the point I was going for, i've been busy and this is the first I had a chance to check in. I'm thinking about this for my personal track car but not our Champ car. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

On any tight track without a long straightaway I would bet the LFX Miata beats the 600 hp 3500 lb Mustang. I suspect anybody who looks down their nose at a Miata with 300+ hp (assuming well setup, and competent driver), is very likely to change their mind if they race one... hell, same goes if they just drive one with stock hp and decent suspension setup.

 

Just my opinion, based on a lot of research and lap time reviewing, and driving one. They are amazingly capable if done well.

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