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Daytona - Intentional contact from Matt Connelly Motorsports


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  • Technical Advisory Committee
1 minute ago, wvumtnbkr said:

#like.

 

You hit on something very important here.  

 

Is the team captain responsible for all the drivers in their car all the time?  Before you answer, I would like to point something out...

 

I don't think Matt himself has actually had any incidents (or at least major incidents).  Does he get doubly screwed because his renter made a mistake and now has some action taken against HIM?

 

Is it the same rental driver?  Or is it a string of idiots?

 

My opinion is that yes, the team captain is responsible.  It is the captain's job to make sure everybody in the car is vetted in some way.


Good point, I guess the buck has to stop somewhere and that most likely lands squarely on the team captain. 

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There are not too many ec cars that are faster than regular champcar.   Like maybe 3 or 4 in the entire series.   Ec isn't the problem  

Here's a view from one car back.  Fortunately managed to stay out of it but sorry for your teams' day getting messed up.    

Wasn't calling out a team for retaliation.  I was calling out a team for intentially hitting another car.   A ball punch is a very paralyzing manuever.   Who am I kidding?  I don't

  • Technical Advisory Committee

This would be a good time to pitch driver tracking to the BOD.  If "we" knew who was in the car at the time of the incident(s), the target hate could be directed at the individual responsible instead of the car/team.  Not saying the car/team is without liability here by any stretch, but the individual responsible should be put on trial first.  

 

Watching the video, its clear the car did something unusual in the infield, up to and including a pass partially or fully in the grass in heavy traffic.  The second video shows the car came down on the contour entering the banking.  It may have been intent or it could have just been a mistake?  Hard to say from video.  Do we know for sure it was the same driver in both incidents from daytona? 

 

I do know the car/team's history is certainly affecting the perception of the incident.

 

Edit:

Both incidents deserved a black flag, which should mean the person at black flag knows if it was/wasnt the same driver.  2 black flags for contact should have meant a long cooling off period at minimum.  

However, 

black flag can't talk to someone if it doesnt get called in by control.  Control can't call it in immediately if a flagger doesn't see it.  If they get video like this though, they will call it in later.  

Edited by Huggy
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31 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

#like.

 

You hit on something very important here.  

 

Is the team captain responsible for all the drivers in their car all the time?  Before you answer, I would like to point something out...

 

I don't think Matt himself has actually had any incidents (or at least major incidents).  Does he get doubly screwed because his renter made a mistake and now has some action taken against HIM?

 

Is it the same rental driver?  Or is it a string of idiots?

 

My opinion is that yes, the team captain is responsible.  It is the captain's job to make sure everybody in the car is vetted in some way.

Absolutely the team captain is responsible. I don't understand why there is even an EC class. EC promotes cars that are much faster than the rest of the crowd, which leads to more dangerous situations. Champ even thought so when they made the rules:

2.2.2. ChampCar reserves the right to deny entry to any EC car if ChampCar determines the car to be excessively superior in power, braking, top speed or other factors that ChampCar feels would be unsafe or disruptive to any event.

 

I am extremely disappointed in how this was handled so far. The video was taken to race leadership right after the damaged car came into the garage, and the offending team was allowed to finish the entire race, while robbing 2 other teams of track time. I don't have any real skin in this league, I don't drive and I volunteered as pit crew with a team of friends once.

 

Edited by 69_sportsroof
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10 minutes ago, Huggy said:

This would be a good time to pitch driver tracking to the BOD.  If "we" knew who was in the car at the time of the incident(s), the target hate could be directed at the individual responsible instead of the car/team.  Not saying the car/team is without liability here by any stretch, but the individual responsible should be put on trial first.  

 

Watching the video, its clear the car did something unusual in the infield, up to and including a pass partially or fully in the grass in heavy traffic.  The second video shows the car came down on the contour entering the banking.  It may have been intent or it could have just been a mistake?  Hard to say from video.  Do we know for sure it was the same driver in both incidents from daytona? 

 

I do know the car/team's history is certainly affecting the perception of the incident.

 

Edit:

Both incidents deserved a black flag, which should mean the person at black flag knows if it was/wasnt the same driver.  2 black flags for contact should have meant a long cooling off period at minimum.  

However, 

black flag can't talk to someone if it doesnt get called in by control.  Control can't call it in immediately if a flagger doesn't see it.  If they get video like this though, they will call it in later.  

These incidents were within 20-30 minutes of each other in the first hour or so of the race, I would be shocked if it wasn't the same driver. Video was taken to the control tower as soon as the damaged team got it, no black flag for the BMW to my knowledge, they finished the race.

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11 minutes ago, Huggy said:

This would be a good time to pitch driver tracking to the BOD.  If "we" knew who was in the car at the time of the incident(s), the target hate could be directed at the individual responsible instead of the car/team.  Not saying the car/team is without liability here by any stretch, but the individual responsible should be put on trial first.  

I have brought up RFID tracking as a possibility to the Board.  

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2 minutes ago, 69_sportsroof said:

Absolutely the team captain is responsible. I don't understand why there is even an EC class. EC promotes cars that are much faster than the rest of the crowd, which leads to more dangerous situations. Champ even thought so when they made the rules:

2.2.2. ChampCar reserves the right to deny entry to any EC car if ChampCar determines the car to be excessively superior in power, braking, top speed or other factors that ChampCar feels would be unsafe or disruptive to any event.

 

I am extremely disappointed in how this was handled so far. The video was taken to race leadership right after the damaged car came into the garage, and the offending team was allowed to finish the entire race, while robbing 2 other teams of track time.

 

There are not too many ec cars that are faster than regular champcar.

 

Like maybe 3 or 4 in the entire series.

 

Ec isn't the problem

 

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13 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

There are not too many ec cars that are faster than regular champcar.

 

Like maybe 3 or 4 in the entire series.

 

Ec isn't the problem

 

Apparently I was off on a tangent, the BMW was C class, not EC... according to the results on speedhive

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My opinion. Everyone has one.

 

I really think pentalizing the team captain and his car  for several races or more.  It would be a good  example of how not to run a rental operation at Champcar races. Most of us pay out of our pocket to race. It's a privilege to race without a license and a phone book rule book. I love the fellow racer who is within the rules and not showing up with a EC car to "DOMINATE". That's not the intent of our series.  If they are trying to cover costs with rent. Maybe if he loses the rent and ability to profit they may just go away like they should. He is here because it easy for them to enter and can profit from the series. Money is 99% of our decision making process we usually make. Champcar is a series of great people doing amazing things with crap cars. Everyone I have been involved within the series has been helpful, kind and just nice people. Champcar themselves really try hard to get everone on the track to race safely. I have failed tech evertime and they helped me pass. I have lent tools and parts. I have barrowed tools because we left the tool box keys at the RV. Dont let this one incident put bad mark on Champcar. It is racing good or bad. Champcar is a great series to be involved in. I hope it is for others because I am having good time with or without you. It always could be worse.

 

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3 hours ago, macheesy said:

Here's a view from one car back.  Fortunately managed to stay out of it but sorry for your teams' day getting messed up.

 

Thanks a ton for posting that, makes it a lot clearer than my footage could show.  Very glad we were running a camera, and we got lucky you were behind us.  Also glad you managed to avoid our mess!

 

I'm home and trailer is put away.  Hopefully can get some better footage up later today.  I'm beat.

 

Appreciate everyone's support.  I didn't even realize it was the same BMW until a few hours after we got back on track and I looked at the footage of that rub earlier.

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57 minutes ago, krispykritter said:

 

Thanks a ton for posting that, makes it a lot clearer than my footage could show.  Very glad we were running a camera, and we got lucky you were behind us.  Also glad you managed to avoid our mess!

 

I'm home and trailer is put away.  Hopefully can get some better footage up later today.  I'm beat.

 

Appreciate everyone's support.  I didn't even realize it was the same BMW until a few hours after we got back on track and I looked at the footage of that rub earlier.

My first stint driver said something about avoiding a spinning miata in the banking, if so, we may have been in that pack *with yet undiscovered footage*

 

What time did this happen? The cameras started overheating/flaking mid second stint.

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1 hour ago, Jer said:

I have brought up RFID tracking as a possibility to the Board.  

 

WRL uses a QR code on the gear tech sticker on the helmet.  The QR code it ties to each driver, and they do track driver contact.  They just scan the code with a cell phone the same way they do at check in.

 

The system isn't fullproof, since drivers "could" still swap helmets, but it's better than no system.

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3 minutes ago, SonsOfIrony said:

 

WRL uses a QR code on the gear tech sticker on the helmet.  The QR code it ties to each driver, and they do track driver contact.  They just scan the code with a cell phone the same way they do at check in.

 

The system isn't fullproof, since drivers "could" still swap helmets, but it's better than no system.

Yes, I know.  It's a pretty good idea.  It won't stop a driver from ripping it off and "needing" one at the next race but a database with ID'd drivers could help with that.  

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Oh, figured out how to handle EC cars. Let them start 2 hours after. Let's the classes get sorted out. They feather in after the rush is over. They will in no way be in competition. Plus a negative for coming with an EC car will be less track time. May deter them from entering because they will not get all the rent they needed due to one less stint. Just an suggestion. I understand why they are in our series but would really like to not see them at the track. It is demoralizing to bust your buns to  be compliant and someone comes in with a  painted nice newer car that is not compliant and just runs wild with rented racers who just paid there way to the top. Kinda like MCM in the past.

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  • Technical Advisory Committee
3 minutes ago, 333 Kinkle said:

Oh, figured out how to handle EC cars. Let them start 2 hours after. Let's the classes get sorted out. They feather in after the rush is over. They will in no way be in competition. Plus a negative for coming with an EC car will be less track time. May deter them from entering because they will not get all the rent they needed due to one less stint. Just an suggestion. I understand why they are in our series but would really like to not see them at the track. It is demoralizing to bust your buns to  be compliant and someone comes in with a  painted nice newer car that is not compliant and just runs wild with rented racers who just paid there way to the top. Kinda like MCM in the past.

 

That's using a sledge hammer to drive a nail.  This car/team caused the issue, it can be dealt with one way or the other.  It just needs to happen.  Many cars operate fine in EC class and do not have this particular issue.  

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7 minutes ago, Jer said:

Yes, I know.  It's a pretty good idea.  It won't stop a driver from ripping it off and "needing" one at the next race but a database with ID'd drivers could help with that.  

 

The number is tied to the driver account.  When you get a new sticker, they just update the number on your account.  I found that out when I got a new sticker, for my new helmet last year mid season.

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Just now, SonsOfIrony said:

 

The number is tied to the driver account.  When you get a new sticker, they just update the number on your account.  I found that out when I got a new sticker, for my new helmet last year mid season.

 

SCCA uses a barcode tied to your member#. It can be scanned by a handheld barcode scanner and if you loose it they just print you a new one that is exactly the same as the old one. 

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EC cars aren't the problem.

In this case, the problem is a team on which the team owner isn't managing his drivers and is, in effect, actually encouraging them by failing to correct the situation. Suspend the team from the series for a year. I also believe it's appropriate to notify WRL and AER of this action. I think even though the series are somewhat competing, it's in the best interests of all racers to keep teams/drivers like this off the racing surface.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Snorman said:

I also believe it's appropriate to notify WRL and AER of this action. I think even though the series are somewhat competing, it's in the best interests of all racers to keep teams/drivers like this off the racing surface.

This happens more than you know.  

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34 minutes ago, XelderX said:

 

SCCA uses a barcode tied to your member#. It can be scanned by a handheld barcode scanner and if you loose it they just print you a new one that is exactly the same as the old one. 

This.  We all have a Champcar membership number - that's your ID for everything else, it's also your driver ID.  Bar code / QR Code, whatever, one number that's consistent.  No, it won't help with a borrowed helmet if someone really wants to try and circumvent the system, but if we were tracking drivers and they ran back to back stints....

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43 minutes ago, 333 Kinkle said:

Oh, figured out how to handle EC cars. Let them start 2 hours after. Let's the classes get sorted out. They feather in after the rush is over. They will in no way be in competition. Plus a negative for coming with an EC car will be less track time. May deter them from entering because they will not get all the rent they needed due to one less stint. Just an suggestion. I understand why they are in our series but would really like to not see them at the track. It is demoralizing to bust your buns to  be compliant and someone comes in with a  painted nice newer car that is not compliant and just runs wild with rented racers who just paid there way to the top. Kinda like MCM in the past.

The “EC problem” was hashed out last year, revisit those threads for a refresher. As has been said by many, the issues in this thread are NOT EC related. And at this event the MCM car wasn’t even EC

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  • Technical Advisory Committee

Current state: Jer says the board is aware and will discuss it this week.  They, the CEO, and the Event Directors are the only ones that can do anything to address this issue.  Not much point in continuing to beat the dead horse here.  But that's what we do here in the forum, we beat dead horses until they are tender enough for Taco Bell to serve in a chalupa.  

 

Edit: No offense intended to you Taco Bell fans. I like cooked horse as much as the next guy.

Edited by Burningham
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1 hour ago, SonsOfIrony said:

 

The system isn't fullproof, since drivers "could" still swap helmets, but it's better than no system.

 

*My co-renter/friend/dad/wife: "Hey, I totally smashed up a car in that last stint and I'm on probation until I drive better.  Can i use your helmet for my next stint"

*Me: .....

are you serious? meme - Third World Skeptical Kid (6995) Page 4 ...

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2 hours ago, Team Infiniti said:

My first stint driver said something about avoiding a spinning miata in the banking, if so, we may have been in that pack *with yet undiscovered footage*

 

What time did this happen? The cameras started overheating/flaking mid second stint.

 

It looks like just shy of an hour.  Maybe 45-55 minutes in.  Thanks for looking, Ed.

 

1 hour ago, Burningham said:

Current state: Jer says the board is aware and will discuss it this week.  They, the CEO, and the Event Directors are the only ones that can do anything to address this issue.  Not much point in continuing to beat the dead horse here.  But that's what we do here in the forum, we beat dead horses until they are tender enough for Taco Bell to serve in a chalupa.  

 

Edit: No offense intended to you Taco Bell fans. I like cooked horse as much as the next guy.

 

Agreed.  I wanted some attention on this as I felt it needed to be looked at.  It's beyond my hands now, so I'll just wait for a resolution.

 

Thanks guys.

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