Jump to content

IRS suspension swap


mender
 Share

Recommended Posts

I have an '87 Fiero and I want to use the '88 rear suspension. It's a bolt-on cradle that attaches to the '87 with no mods other than drilling three holes at the top of each strut tower to tilt the strut to the '88 location. Same generation car. 

 

Points or free?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, mender said:

I have an '87 Fiero and I want to use the '88 rear suspension. It's a bolt-on cradle that attaches to the '87 with no mods other than drilling three holes at the top of each strut tower to tilt the strut to the '88 location. Same generation car. 

 

Points or free?

Is there a point difference between 87 and 88?  If not, go for it.

 

I think the precedence has been set that you can cherry pick the best parts from the platform.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Technical Advisory Committee

VIN number of the car doesn't matter.

 

Rule 4.6 "platform" swap says you can swap for no points if you also swap all of the other components which matter to match.

 

image.png.400befafc1b9bc8016769225eb3b1cf7.png

 

As far as I know, there is no BCCR rule that says you can cherry-pick the best parts, although that precedent has potentially been set.  If you want to cherry pick, contacting TECH though the tech desk would be your best bet.

 

Although, I suspect this is a purely mental exercise/rhetorical question and you know the answer already.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Is there a point difference between 87 and 88?  If not, go for it.

 

I think the precedence has been set that you can cherry pick the best parts from the platform.

You cannot cherry pick or mix-n-match in a platform. The camaro trans / engine mix was a special case outlined by tech.

Edited by enginerd
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, enginerd said:

You cannot cherry pick or mix-n-match in a platform. The camaro trans / engine mix was a special case outlined by tech.

Isn't that precedence?  

 

Tomato tomatoes.

 

How can the camaro do that?

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Isn't that precedence?  

 

Tomato tomatoes.

 

How can the camaro do that?

Talk to Mike Chisek, apparently this specific mix and match has more to do with 305 engine vs. 350 and goes back nearly a decade. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, LuckyKid said:

AFAIK this would be points.  Are people doing this?

 

I don't know if it's happening in Champcar, just using it as a similar example using a different chassis that's common. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, XelderX said:

I don't know if it's happening in Champcar, just using it as a similar example using a different chassis that's common. 

Please keep your comments ChampCar specific (unless posting in the ‘stuff that isn’t ChampCar’ section of the forum). I’m sure you see how your earlier comment can / will lead to rampant speculation that will take several pages to contain.

Edited by enginerd
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, enginerd said:

Please keep your comments ChampCar specific (unless posting in the ‘stuff that isn’t ChampCar’ section of the forum). I’m sure you see how your earlier comment can / will lead to rampant speculation that will take several pages to contain.

 

It is Champcar specific. It's possible to do in Champcar. 

 

I mentioned nothing about speculation...and don't see how I should be responsible for someone else's interpretation of what I wrote. 

 

Whether someone is doing it or not isn't the point. There is a ton of discussion in other threads about hypotheticals. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, E. Tyler Pedersen said:

I know for an e36 you can use either a ZF or a Getrag 5 speed transmission. Pick and choose. 

It’s a specific rule outline in the tech desk list. If cars were generally allowed to mix and match, there wouldn’t be a specific ruling about e36 trans mixing. 
 

Also, what idiot made that rule? Come on! What is the point of that? Just say no when some team comes to the tech desk whining about having a spare ZF and not wanting to have to buy a Getrag or vis versa. 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, enginerd said:

Talk to Mike Chisek, apparently this specific mix and match has more to do with 305 engine vs. 350 and goes back nearly a decade. 

Good to know.  Thanks!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, mender said:

I have an '87 Fiero and I want to use the '88 rear suspension. It's a bolt-on cradle that attaches to the '87 with no mods other than drilling three holes at the top of each strut tower to tilt the strut to the '88 location. Same generation car. 

 

Points or free?

 

If you replicate an "normal model" available in 88 with parts you are allowed to run it as an 88 regardless of the vin\year of the shell, provided it is the same chassis generation. 

 

I think you guys are asking the question wrong, it isn't "can I swap xyz part from 88 to an 87", what you mean to ask is "if I match all of the parts of an 88 in an 87 shell, can I call it an 88"

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Black Magic said:

 

If you replicate an "normal model" available in 88 with parts you are allowed to run it as an 88 regardless of the vin\year of the shell, provided it is the same chassis generation. 

 

I think you guys are asking the question wrong, it isn't "can I swap xyz part from 88 to an 87", what you mean to ask is "if I match all of the parts of an 88 in an 87 shell, can I call it an 88"

 

He's only asking about the rear suspension though. The front suspension is also different and requires frame cutting and extra welding to make fit. Most people won't swap the front suspension, but the rear cradle swap is common. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, XelderX said:

 

He's only asking about the rear suspension though. The front suspension is also different and requires frame cutting and extra welding to make fit. Most people won't swap the front suspension, but the rear cradle swap is common. 

 

You will have a harder time getting that through tech, as you have created a package not purchasable by someone in the 80s from the factory. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Black Magic said:

 

You will have a harder time getting that through tech, as you have created a package not purchasable by someone in the 80s from the factory. 

 

Correct, but is it allowed due to the mix-match allowed with other cars? Is it a 20 point hit (Suspension point not otherwise listed x2)? 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrators
2 hours ago, enginerd said:

It’s a specific rule outline in the tech desk list. If cars were generally allowed to mix and match, there wouldn’t be a specific ruling about e36 trans mixing. 
 

Also, what idiot made that rule? Come on! What is the point of that? Just say no when some team comes to the tech desk whining about having a spare ZF and not wanting to have to buy a Getrag or vis versa. 

 

Without getting under the car as a competitor can you police a car with a ZF or Getrag transmission?  Per the rules you cannot look under cars and around cars so how do you tell a ZF from a Getrag transmission?  Please tell me how to police this with the rules outlined in the BCCR. Also I was the one who told Tech the years where ZFs and Getrags were available in BMWs but does not matter at this point.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, enginerd said:

There are only two non-OE components needed to convert the rear suspension from ‘87 to ‘88?

 

• Suspension component (not otherwise listed in this table), non-OE: 10 pts per corner

 

Using that rule....Everything else falls under 2x or 0 points...or isn't listed at all. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, E. Tyler Pedersen said:

 

Without getting under the car as a competitor can you police a car with a ZF or Getrag transmission?  Per the rules you cannot look under cars and around cars so how do you tell a ZF from a Getrag transmission?  Please tell me how to police this with the rules outlined in the BCCR. Also I was the one who told Tech the years where ZFs and Getrags were available in BMWs but does not matter at this point.  

Tech can. 
 

And competitors CAN look under cars, I think the rulebook says that you can’t crawl under a car. But one could always ask tech to check what box it is. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, XelderX said:

 

• Suspension component (not otherwise listed in this table), non-OE: 10 pts per corner

 

Using that rule....Everything else falls under 2x or 0 points...or isn't listed at all. 

Ok, that does NOT mean “change every component on a corner for a total of 10 points per corner”.

 

Its written that way because some smart ass will say (for example) “I want to change to non-OE lower control arms, and lower control arms are sold as a pair, so that is one component, so 10 points total”. The rulebook is explicitly stating that (for example) if you put a non-OE lower control arm on two corners, it’s 20 points. And if you (for example) did upper and lower control arms on two corners it’s 40 points. 

Edited by enginerd
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, enginerd said:

Ok, that does NOT mean “change every component on a corner for a total of 10 points per corner”.

 

Its written that way because some smart ass will say (for example) “I want to change to non-OE lower control arms, and lower control arms are sold as a pair, so that is one component, so 10 points total”. The rulebook is explicitly stating that if you put a non-OE lower control arm on two corners, it’s 20 points. And if you did upper and lower control arms on two corners it’s 40 points. 

 

How many points is the cradle? It's not one corner or the other. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...