Jump to content

Run Empty Tolerant Internal Lift Pump


Recommended Posts

47 minutes ago, Huggy said:

I run gss250 walbro’s

 

it’s a georotor Pump that’s been reliable running dry

 

where did you find that info?  i've been researching and couldn't find any solid info.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, 67Mustang said:

In this case was running dry more to do with being on the banking for extended periods versus more flat corning?

Well, In my opinion, the high banking is kind of canceled out by G forces..

 

When I said there is more to the story, this year, for some reason, my low fuel light failed and we ran the car out of gas four consecutive drivers changes, The way my car is set up it didn’t leave us stranded but sputtering and able to get back.

Pretty sure that’s a contributing factor.

Edited by Team Infiniti
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That makes sense, possibly with sucking it dry a few times in a row, any crap that was in there may have found it's way in to the pump or filter, and maybe clogging caused the effect of running dry.  Meaning maybe it wasn't truely dry but having to work far to hard and that killed it.  I am just guessing of course, not really familiar with your cars set up in the fuel system.  Depending on how the pickup is situated the banking seemingly could cause some issues as well, but again just wild a$$ guessing on my part.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, SonsOfIrony said:

What kind of pressure are you asking from the pumps?  If you're just filling a surge, the lower you can get the pressure, the less stress the pump.will see.

Surge is filled with a stock Infiniti in tank high pressure pump under very little load, over fill of the swirl is returned just as it would be if connected to the rail. All lines are factory, extra lines to make the system were pulled from donor Infiniti. The low side has never been pressure checked but prob operates @ 10psi or less, High side has yet to fail, it too is a stock Infiniti pump plumbed to a stock FPR pushing approx 43 psi.

 

I would like to keep the system design as it is all based on factory hardlines, not one inch of rubber in the trunk.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Technical Advisory Committee

No written source.  I called and discussed with Walbro in the past.  I also talked to Bosch, who made/makes the OE pump for my application.

 

I have been running these pumps for 4 years.  Never ran a hydramat until 2019.  Surge tanks just installed in December.   They were getting run dry often and being asked to supply 3bar.

 

A turbine pump would likely be better, but I wasn't confident in that assessment. They generally run at higher RPM than a georotor pump.  

Edited by Huggy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Technical Advisory Committee

Ok I have apparently been using the wrong pumps for a long time and getting lucky.

 

called walbro again today and got a really knowledgeable guy who set me straight.

 

he said basically no pump is designed to run dry, but a georotor Pump will be notably worse than a turbine one.

 

so now I’m on the hunt for a turbine replacement with similar dimensions and connections.  

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Huggy said:

Ok I have apparently been using the wrong pumps for a long time and getting lucky.

 

called walbro again today and got a really knowledgeable guy who set me straight.

 

he said basically no pump is designed to run dry, but a georotor Pump will be notably worse than a turbine one.

 

so now I’m on the hunt for a turbine replacement with similar dimensions and connections.  

 

Report back, I've been looking at lift pumps for our car as well.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Failed OEM used fuel pump, dissembled and visually inspected, heavy wear but no smoking gun. Ohm-ing the armature tomorrow.

 

50091499368_797cabd2b7_c.jpg

50092081346_cc8f136f53_c.jpg

 

Had a idea but never looked into why these things have been so robust

 

50092315317_10c1b2b8ef_c.jpg

 

Most definitely lubed and cooled by fuel as it enters the bottom via pump inlet, flows up through the rotating, sealed armature, around the magnets, cools the brushes, then exits the top... I have dissected similar GM and ford pumps but they don't hold a candle to this.

 

50092315177_12b5481f4f_c.jpg

 

Armature bushings not as expected, it also shows some heat at one end.

 

50092081531_851e0c2a02_c.jpg

 

Decent amount of wear but still good

 

50092315527_3eaea4c72d_c.jpg

50092314842_b2473f649e_c.jpg

 

50092315612_f46a8f04ee_c.jpg

50091498703_4e53816ae1_c.jpg

50092314937_55fc762b92_c.jpg

50092314912_daca33a365_c.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Technical Advisory Committee

I think you are gonna struggle to beat that for reliability when running dry.  Id go back with a new OE infinity pump.

 

I'm looking through the Bosch catalog and trying to find one with the same size/shape as mine I swap out for.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Huggy said:

I think you are gonna struggle to beat that for reliability when running dry.  Id go back with a new OE infinity pump.

 

I'm looking through the Bosch catalog and trying to find one with the same size/shape as mine I swap out for.

Looking at returning rail fuel to the sock of the lift pump rather then back to surge, not sure what else there is to do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

Looking at returning rail fuel to the sock of the lift pump rather then back to surge, not sure what else there is to do.

Keep the rail return going to surge, and move the surge-to-tank return to the sock if it isn’t already. Definitely do not return rail to tank. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

What about a hydramat and external walbro inline gls392 that goes to a surge tank with a warning light on it. You run the return to the top of the hyrdamat and the hydramat sucks up it so well it should not really be running dry for long. Maybe 1 lap of no fuel, but it still should be lubricated enough to be fine.

 

What pumps really do not like is when they have to suck and pressure, that will kill them very fast, ask me how I know. Make sure all the vent lines are not clogged, that was my issue and took 3-4 race failures to finally figure out.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Robmink said:

Thanks for the link, I will look at everything/anything suggested

 

28 minutes ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

What about a hydramat and external walbro inline gls392 that goes to a surge tank with a warning light on it. You run the return to the top of the hyrdamat and the hydramat sucks up it so well it should not really be running dry for long. Maybe 1 lap of no fuel, but it still should be lubricated enough to be fine.

 

What pumps really do not like is when they have to suck and pressure, that will kill them very fast, ask me how I know. Make sure all the vent lines are not clogged, that was my issue and took 3-4 race failures to finally figure out.

No venting issues, have only killed a handfull of used OEM pumps in 45ish races, they usually just make lower pressure, still will finish the day, and even do another couple events till I find the slight loss of power,  the 2 that have absolutely quit were @ Daytona and tasked with lifting under no load (same pump in swirl pot never has given up) As of right now, I am looking to keep everything inside the tank, it keeps trunk clutter to a minimum and is safest with no rubber lines.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Huggy said:

I think you are gonna struggle to beat that for reliability when running dry.  Id go back with a new OE infinity pump.

 

I'm looking through the Bosch catalog and trying to find one with the same size/shape as mine I swap out for.

I use 2 Bosch 69481 for my lifts in my e30. But I'd like to explore external pumps/hydramat moving forward. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Technical Advisory Committee
2 hours ago, MichaelPal said:

I use 2 Bosch 69481 for my lifts in my e30. But I'd like to explore external pumps/hydramat moving forward. 

Do you know what the inlet size is on those?  Looks larger than the 11mm hydramat size in photos

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...