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Just now, Grufton said:

 

 

Some of this could be caused by our less than consistent application of the rules - take the IRS swap value as the latest example.  I know I've frustrated @National Tech asking questions through the tech desk that would seem to have obvious answers.  Given what I've seen elsewhere I feel like I have to ask just to be sure.  I can see why someone would throw their hands up and just ask for a build spec.

 

 

consistent application of the rules - that's being worked on.

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ChampCar is successful, it is also different.  I have raced my whole life and I attend about 20 of our events a year. I am amazed at the quality and closeness of racing throughout the field, classes i

I am the only employee that has gone to almost every race for the past few years. I get bitched at by a few before the race about our rules.  But after the race the vast majority of the people tha

Issues:   - This clearly caters to syphoning in new teams who already race WRL / LDRL. It comes at the expense of enormous rebuild / rework costs for existing teams. After some quick math, I

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Because of the Tech Desk set of rules and the BCCR rules... we are working on making one target for you to hit. The learning curve has been steep.

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1 minute ago, Grufton said:

 

 

Some of this could be caused by our less than consistent application of the rules - take the IRS swap value as the latest example.  I know I've frustrated @National Tech asking questions through the tech desk that would seem to have obvious answers.  Given what I've seen elsewhere I feel like I have to ask just to be sure.  I can see why someone would throw their hands up and just ask for a build spec.

 

I've talked to several members who got frustrated with the rules and things changing between when they were told it was "OK" and when they finished building it. They are still participating, but definitely with less passion for the series. 

 

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Consistency is good but...

 

Racers being racers, pushing a personal agenda, should not be surprised when they are shot down in person after asking sideways questions to suit their needs or built something stupid fast and potentially controversial.

 

New rules only bring about new ways to skirt those rules.

Edited by Team Infiniti
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  ChampCar is successful, it is also different.  I have raced my whole life and I attend about 20 of our events a year. I am amazed at the quality and closeness of racing throughout the field, classes included.  We have the largest variety of cars racing against each other with no dominance by any one . I am constantly amazed at the varity of cars in impound.  From racing speck cars to karts with every moving part checked to the thousandth of an inch - any rule set will have issues. Are our rules perfect no,  are these proposed rules perfect NO. 

  This year, and others we have held more races with more cars at more tracks than any other searies in the world .  I have had to many new and old members come up to me to tell me how wonderful ChampCar is, and  appreciating just the opportunity to race with us, for this rule set we have to be totally wrong.  

  I can say more but I will just end with this Leave Us Alone and Race ...

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I don't see a reason to change the rules like this when Champ is very successful. 

 

The point I make to people about champ is that only 20% of the field shows up to each event for an overall win, the other 80% of the field is out there to have a good time.

 

But just for fun the S2000 would fit perfectly within the 75hp/1000Lb rule, especially with the 10% dyno leeway it wont be even close. 

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9 minutes ago, Snorman said:

Speaking of series success...21 cars at the LDRL at Charlotte.

Yeah, what does Randy Pobst know about racing... ;)

Edited by mender
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11 minutes ago, mender said:

Yeah, what does Randy Pobst know about racing... ;)

A helluva lot more than you. He also races a helluva lot more than you (not counting keyboards).

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4 hours ago, Snorman said:

Speaking of series success...21 cars at the LDRL at Charlotte.

 

I think 21 included the pace car.  Which might be useful information, not sure.  Will look at the results to see if it yields anything useful.

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2 hours ago, Burningham said:

 

I think 21 included the pace car.  Which might be useful information, not sure.  Will look at the results to see if it yields anything useful.

I posted that because there are some people who would have literally gloated if the LDRL race had a higher attendance than CCES so that they could point and say "see...I told you so, Champ is driving away customers". 

It's unfortunate. 

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44 minutes ago, Snorman said:

I posted that because there are some people who would have literally gloated if the LDRL race had a higher attendance than CCES so that they could point and say "see...I told you so, Champ is driving away customers". 

It's unfortunate. 

Spit troof brother!

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2 hours ago, Snorman said:

I posted that because there are some people who would have literally gloated if the LDRL race had a higher attendance than CCES so that they could point and say "see...I told you so, Champ is driving away customers". 

It's unfortunate. 

Haven't had a chance to look, any familiar names that crossed over? 

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2 hours ago, Snorman said:

I posted that because there are some people who would have literally gloated if the LDRL race had a higher attendance than CCES so that they could point and say "see...I told you so, Champ is driving away customers". 

It's unfortunate. 

So you decided to do a little preemptive gloating of your own. How nice. :)

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18 minutes ago, hotchkis23 said:

Haven't had a chance to look, any familiar names that crossed over? 

I saw a few...Racebar and Randy were/are there. 

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3 hours ago, Snorman said:

I posted that because there are some people who would have literally gloated if the LDRL race had a higher attendance than CCES so that they could point and say "see...I told you so, Champ is driving away customers". 

It's unfortunate. 

 

 

I think it says more about the lack of interest in Charlotte Roval than it does about any comparison between organizations. 

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13 minutes ago, XelderX said:

I think it says more about the lack of interest in Charlotte Roval than it does about any comparison between organizations. 

 

I would love to do the Roval at Charlotte but it is always scheduled right around the Daytona event and I can not do both that close together, or not in the past I couldn't, and I bet other people are in the same boat.  Future may be different for me...   I'm building a second car actually, so it will open the door for quick turn around, pretty happy where we are as a series so I'd like to hope we can stay.

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1 hour ago, XelderX said:

 

 

I think it says more about the lack of interest in Charlotte Roval than it does about any comparison between organizations. 

And maybe a race that starts Sunday at 12noon and ends 10pm Sunday.

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12 hours ago, DEE DEE said:

And maybe a race that starts Sunday at 12noon and ends 10pm Sunday.

LDRL had the track for the entire weekend and ran a Friday-Saturday parc ferme.

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17 hours ago, XelderX said:

 

 

I think it says more about the lack of interest in Charlotte Roval than it does about any comparison between organizations. 

 

18 hours ago, Snorman said:

I saw a few...Racebar and Randy were/are there. 

 

18 hours ago, mender said:

So you decided to do a little preemptive gloating of your own. How nice. :)

Turn out would’ve been double  for us if it weren’t so close to Daytona due to Covid.

 

The lack of interest in that Roval isn’t so glaring... Unless you put it up against Daytona, Charlotte is much harder!


Race bar and Randy have never stuck to one series.

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On 8/14/2020 at 7:57 AM, Snorman said:

The PB car is just under 2000# and just under 150 rwhp. 

This proposal would absolutely benefit lightweight cars like Miatas and E30's and screw D-class cars and eventually the series would gravitate to one dominant platform. If you don't like variety on the podium, then it's a great idea. 

 

Scaling power to weight at higher speed tracks will bias to heavy cars, as the drag is generally not proportional to the weight. 

 

A car 2x the weight with 1.5 x the frontal area will be much faster top speed since has 2x the power and 1.5x the drag. 

 

Slow speed it will hurt a big car. Might be a decent balance.

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@riche30 I appreciate your work on trying to make a new path for the series. You have a tough path ahead as any of us with a distinct advantage will want to protect it. Goes back to the "didn't pick your car" days.

 

A few thoughts, in general I like your approach to trying to balance the physics of the cars. Has been something I tried to address with several petitions. 

 

Mechanical airflow limits might be better\cheaper than just a dyno. Many series do this, some with correction factors for large displacement per restrictor size or forced induction (both help cheat the device). We can engineer predictions for this if needed. Better tuned cars will make more power, but you end up approaching a brick wall of fluid dynamics that caps the gains. 

 

With the flagtronics system coming and the ability to snoop cars speed data, you have another great way to double check parity. Software problem, but done by groups like world challenge. You will find high speeds favor big cars in a pwr balanced series, small tracks little cars. 

 

Do weights empty of all fuel. Easiest way to keep us from ballasting up. Require a fuel pump switch, external pump or removable cell rack. 

 

Not sure hardpoint locations matter as much as tire type, wheel width, and drive end (fwd vs rwd). You may need some weight corrections to balance the field further, maybe add that concept in.

 

As an intermediate, maybe some of your thoughts could go into better pwr controls for the series with reduction in aero parts and fuel parity. If your plan is too big for the series, things like fixing the heavily manipulated swap weights, engine mods being calculated inside a swap calculator, higher vpi values for cars outside the target pwr, simple reliability mods being open, fuel parity and more limits on aero parts could be goals.

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Lol...so now you want to use Flagtronics data to "snoop" on cars and restrictor plates. I figured it was only a matter of time before somebody revealed their ulterior motives for the former. 

Thanks for the transparency and proving that you want an amateur, backyard series to turn into NASCAR-lite. 

Wow. I hope your misguided predictions that stuff like this will be good for the series is accurate because I know two teams right now that will leave. 

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  • Bill Strong changed the title to For Your Consideration - A new look at rules

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