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Good Bad and Ugly Discussion.


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Good morning folks.  I had a great discussion with Mike Chisek and Bill Riley yesterday.  I knew that the TAC was working on about 5 or 6 additional cars that need revalued on the VPI list so for 2021

My story.  I'm not one for protesting.  Have never done it. I also understand that post race tech, whether protested by a team or discovered by tech, illegal is illegal.  When I am asked to withdraw m

Just to be clear.  Nobody is upset with GBU for building the car or how the team is or drives.  We are upset with how the series handled teching and point association with this car, both pre and post

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18 hours ago, Slugworks Paul said:
You don't have to agree with me. Many of you probably won't. But this car has laid bare significant communication and equality of rule implementation issues, not to mention set a precedent for the direction of the series that is concerning to a lot of us."

We've been saying this for years, but we find out the Board thinks we're just a bunch of hot-head wackos in some internet chat room.

Be sure to vote in the next BoD election.

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3 hours ago, Slugworks Paul said:

It’s not a loophole if only a certain team is allowed to use it. That’s not the right word to describe that scenario ;)

@MR2 Biohazard, Paul is right-ish... the word “loophole” carries with it a certain amount of “ooohhhhhh I wish I had thought of that, well played”. In this case what happened is that tech was, I assume, tricked into approving a frame reinforcing structure as a “bar” and should have never approved it as such.

Andrew’s pictures of common “strut bars” hits the nail on the head. 

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17 hours ago, Final Turn Motorsports said:

So after it is all done, nothing I can do.  I start putting wheels on my car.  One of the tech officials then comes to me and pulls me aside. "You ever heard the term, don't throw stones in a glass house?" I replied back to him, "what is glass about my car that I am throwing stones at?"

 

He says "your fuel cell is illegal." "It is stock" i replied.  He said my fill hose is not legal.  I openly pointed out all the rules that make it legal and even called Dana Morrison about it after Daytona. And he agreed it met every aspect of the rules. The tech officials then replies with, "we will see about that. I write the rules and you are not gonna run that anymore."

 

Quoted so hopefully even more people see it. That's some next level poop happening right there. I've seen 12 year olds officiate sand lot ball games with more class than that.

Remember to vote in the next Bod election.

 

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1 minute ago, tommytipover said:

 

Quoted so hopefully even more people see it. That's some next level poop happening right there. I've seen 12 year olds officiate sand lot ball games with more class than that.

Remember to vote in the next Bod election.

 

I've witnessed this exact type of behavior at events as well from officials..it's sad. 

 

Hopefully the BOD is in discussion behind the scenes on not only the GBU debacle, but also the unprofessional way some folks have been acting in their roles as representatives of the series. 

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That car has an Eckler Turbo widebody kit on it. 

21852644-1978-chevrolet-corvette-srcset-

21852689-1978-chevrolet-corvette-srcset-

21852666-1978-chevrolet-corvette-srcset-

They modified a Pace Car spoiler to clear the Eckler rear quarter panels. 

 

Edited by Snorman
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6 minutes ago, Snorman said:

That car has an Eckler Turbo widebody kit on it. 

21852644-1978-chevrolet-corvette-srcset-

21852689-1978-chevrolet-corvette-srcset-

21852666-1978-chevrolet-corvette-srcset-

It's got a non-Pace Car rear bumper cover on it and they modified a Pace Car spoiler to clear the Eckler rear quarter panels. 

 

 

So its a complete body change for 45 points?!  hahahaaahha

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14 hours ago, Mike.g said:

 

*Before I share my reply, please note I am only asking questions. I'm not attacking or yelling, just observations from my point of view and would love to have a healthy discussion on the topic.

In a series originally built around "Build a $500 race car", and that was the rule stated as late as 2016. You wouldn't take less then $20,000 just 4 years later? That is a 3900% increase, wow! Don't get me wrong, your car is amazing, but cars like yours are part of the problem causing an arms race of spending. CC still stands by the idea about going racing without the "obscene expense", but has moved away from the $500 platform and replaced it with 500 points.


I did say my idea wouldn't be popular, especially with people that have spent way over the 10K price point I used in my example.

 

Unpopular opinion 2: You said 50% of the teams would leave, maybe. But we would see more grass root first timers come racing again. I loved when Mike would ask for CC first timers to raise their hand and lots would come up. But the last year when this was asked I only saw a few dozen. The optimistic side if me would say maybe teams would build a 2nd car that would be well within CC buy out price point, and take the other car to other non CC events where it would fit in better.
 

2010ChumpSite.jpg

Mike I think you guys are some of the best I have met in racing and we race almost identical cars under 10,000 spent on our build but that said I think claiming rules are stupid in the 60's and 70's minnesota tracks had claiming rules in the hobby stock divisions at times where you cold claim someone elses car for two or three hundred dollars and you would get there car and they would get yours what this led to were fistfights brawls hatred and animosity in the pits and retribution on the racetrack. It was a bad situation and was dropped.

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http://classicvehicleslist.com/chevrolet/1053-1974-corvette-green-wood-wide-body-turbo-kit.html

 

This is the same widebody kit. Same fender profile, same vents, same door profile. The #350 car has an OE rear bumper cover with a Pace Car wing cut in half to fit the wider quarter panels. Obviously they are not using the tall wing that attaches to the quarters. 

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47 minutes ago, Lethal Cliff said:

The silence from Champ Car is deafening.  over 15,000 views and 700 comments about 1 car in 4 days.  We need at least a statement from Champ Car.

gbu.PNG

According to their stats, there are only 17 people actually posting here so they obviously don't represent the club members...

 

Edit: make that 15 because one person doesn't want to fly across a continent to attend a race and someone else won't say who he is.

Edited by mender
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11 hours ago, hotchkis23 said:

I've witnessed this exact type of behavior at events as well from officials..it's sad. 

 

Hopefully the BOD is in discussion behind the scenes on not only the GBU debacle, but also the unprofessional way some folks have been acting in their roles as representatives of the series. 

The “tech” guy was 100% unprofessional. Attitudes like his will ruin this series faster than the GBU can burn through tires.

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52 minutes ago, mender said:

According to their stats, there are only 17 people actually posting here so they obviously don't represent the club members...

 

Edit: make that 15 because one person doesn't want to fly across a continent to attend a race and someone else won't say who he is.

 

 

actually as of last night less than 400 have added to the forum in the past month. 
 

25 minutes ago, c_leffe said:

The “tech” guy was 100% unprofessional. Attitudes like his will ruin this series faster than the GBU can burn through tires.


I will talk to Chisek about this. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Lethal Cliff said:

The silence from Champ Car is deafening.  over 15,000 views and 700 comments about 1 car in 4 days.  We need at least a statement from Champ Car.

gbu.PNG

 

and you won't. we don't and won't use the forum for business communications. what we are doing behind the scenes is reviewing everything that the TAC, Tech, and operations has in place to make certain that everything is being done properly. It started with the petition statement. 
 

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18 minutes ago, Bill Strong said:

 

we don't and won't use the forum for business communications. what we are doing behind the scenes is reviewing everything that the TAC, Tech, and operations has in place to make certain that everything is being done properly. It started with the petition statement. 
 

 

We understand that.  But there are board members who have, in the past, weighed in on many issues.  The silence from all but us lowly racers is quite noticeable.

 

It makes me wonder if the discussions going on behind the scenes are even more heated than those happening here on the forum.

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19 hours ago, SonsOfIrony said:

It makes me wonder if the discussions going on behind the scenes are even more heated than those happening here on the forum.

What can they say that they haven't said a few times before? They could have a pre-written apology for every time this happens at least. Green font.

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7 hours ago, SonsOfIrony said:

 

We understand that.  But there are board members who have, in the past, weighed in on many issues.  The silence from all but us lowly racers is quite noticeable.

 

It makes me wonder if the discussions going on behind the scenes are even more heated than those happening here on the forum.

I think there has been some level of decreased participation from members of TAC and the BOD here because we seem to beat the same dead horses over and over and there are some that take that as an opening to slam either of these groups for decisions they disagree with.  I highly doubt there is a single decision that they have made where EVERYONE agrees with them so it probably feels a lot like they have put a lot of time and effort into doing what is best for folks racing in the series but we, the forum members, are never satisfied.  Also there is a BCCR for 2021 to review and these are the folks who would be doing that.

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Okay I will bote as a Board Member. I have been talking with TAC, tech and other BOD behind the scenes post Indy. Yes I am still a little on cloud nine but my feet have almost touched the ground. 

 

I have issues with the Riley build and how points were addressed eith the build. We should all be following the same BCCR and how points are applied. Thats one thing that I am passionate on having done and understanding how points are different. 

 

Now on Sunday at Indy we saw the level of how many laps Riley should get so how do we fix that? Its to apply points correctly per whats in the BCCR.

 

I know TAC wants to understand the same thing on the Vette build so they have asked tech what kind of items was granted to be approved during the build process.

 

I talked with @Final Turn Motorsports about the impound Saturday. Yes I was there but I was in 12th so no reason to protest and I do not know Vettes or American Iron. This is why we have a TAC to discuss these issues at racing.  Rob did nothing wrong and did all the right things by filing a protest. That protest should have been taken versus told to withdraw it. 

 

I want to talk to Mike and understand what is going on as well. I wanted to do this before I responded to the forums but you all couldn't wait. 

 

I am here to understand information and get the facts versus hearsay. I also want to fight for you all on this situation and figure out the best solution. i don't mind Bill Riley in the series. We had a good talk after the race on Sunday. I have an issue of how that build was treated and how points are applied. Everyone should be treated the same and that is what I love/loved about the series. We can go race with some of these folks we see on TV at these awesome tracks. 

 

You all can reach out to me anytime. 

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12 minutes ago, E. Tyler Pedersen said:

Okay I will bote as a Board Member. I have been talking with TAC, tech and other BOD behind the scenes post Indy. Yes I am still a little on cloud nine but my feet have almost touched the ground. 

 

I have issues with the Riley build and how points were addressed eith the build. We should all be following the same BCCR and how points are applied. Thats one thing that I am passionate on having done and understanding how points are different. 

 

Now on Sunday at Indy we saw the level of how many laps Riley should get so how do we fix that? Its to apply points correctly per whats in the BCCR.

 

I know TAC wants to understand the same thing on the Vette build so they have asked tech what kind of items was granted to be approved during the build process.

 

I talked with @Final Turn Motorsports about the impound Saturday. Yes I was there but I was in 12th so no reason to protest and I do not know Vettes or American Iron. This is why we have a TAC to discuss these issues at racing. 

 

I want to talk to Mike and understand what is going on as well. I wanted to do this before I responded to the forums but you all couldn't wait. 

 

I am here to understand information and get the facts versus hearsay. I also want to fight for you all on this situation and figure out the best solution. i don't mind Bill Riley in the series. We had a good talk after the race on Sunday. I have an issue of how that build was treated and how points are applied. Everyone should be treated the same and that is what I love/loved about the series. We can go race with some of these folks we see on TV at these awesome tracks. 

 

You all can reach out to me anytime. 

Thanks Tyler

 

This has to be worked out with facts and cool heads for sure.   I and many others know and trust that you especially will do your best to lead such a discussion and solution.   

 

One of the most important things to me personally is to find a solution that keeps this sort of situation from coming up again.  This is not the first time, and its disappointing to many (and I'm sure you as well)  that it repeats.

 

Thanks again for you efforts!

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9 hours ago, Bill Strong said:

 

and you won't. we don't and won't use the forum for business communications. what we are doing behind the scenes is reviewing everything that the TAC, Tech, and operations has in place to make certain that everything is being done properly. It started with the petition statement. 
 

Thanks Bill.  I do not expect anything official to be said on the forum.  But, at the same time you can't over communicate.  A simple statement that says something like:

 

A car was dominate at Indy, We are reviewing everything about the situation.  Please give us some time to determine any further action.

 

 

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I'd like to see the Riley team stay in Champcar.  I've always enjoyed racing beside them. 

 

I have concerns that this will go the way of R3R which would be very unfortunate. GBU has a lot of history in Champcar. 

 

I really hope we can find a way to resolve this that levels the playing field and keeps Good, Bad, and the Ugly in the series. I trust that the board and executive are working through this; we need to give them time. 

Edited by veris
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29 minutes ago, veris said:

I'd like to see the Riley team stay in Champcar.  I've always enjoyed racing beside them. 

 

I have concerns that this will go the way of R3R which would be very unfortunate. GBU has a lot of history in Champcar. 

 

I really hope we can find a way to resolve this that levels the playing field and keeps Good, Bad, and the Ugly in the series. I trust that the board and executive are working through this; we need to give them time. 


The issue is that this all started when reasonable concerns were rejected ("you don't have a protest form" and now "we'd like you to withdraw your protest"). It doesn't make any of us think that the series leadership desires to resolve it.

But of course, Tyler does and I hope he's able to do work on our behalf!

Edited by Slugworks Paul
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17 minutes ago, Slugworks Paul said:


The issue is that this all started when reasonable concerns were rejected. It doesn't make any of us think that the series leadership desires to resolve it.

But of course, Tyler does and I hope he's able to do work on our behalf!

I recall; I was there. Both selective rule enforcement and tires were an issue with R3R. 

 

Hopefully this will be resolved better. 1. Reasonable VPI change. 2. Correct rule enforcement at the next race. 3. A plan to deal with tire issues. 

 

Then a thank you to Bill Riley and GBU for doing what we all have considered. ie Finding the rule book flaws and building a monster, exposing the issues so they are closed. 

 

I know my team has been talking about a monster build for 3 years, but dropping 20+k for a one race build is well outside our resources. 

 

 

 

Edited by veris
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Just now, veris said:

I recall; I was there. Both selective rule enforcement and tires were an issue with R3R. 

 

Hopefully this will be resolved better. 1. Reasonable VPI change. 2. Correct rule enforcement at the next race. 3. A plan to deal with tire issues. 

 

 

 


I don't think the VPI of this particular car is the biggest issue, nor tires, but that's just my opinion.

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