Jump to content

Good Bad and Ugly Discussion.


Recommended Posts

13 minutes ago, veris said:

Finding the rule book flaws and building a monster, exposing the issues so they are closed. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From what I've seen (in this instance only), the rule book doesn't have flaws. The enforcement of the rule book has MAJOR flaws.

 

 

  • Like 11
  • Thanks 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 588
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Good morning folks.  I had a great discussion with Mike Chisek and Bill Riley yesterday.  I knew that the TAC was working on about 5 or 6 additional cars that need revalued on the VPI list so for 2021

My story.  I'm not one for protesting.  Have never done it. I also understand that post race tech, whether protested by a team or discovered by tech, illegal is illegal.  When I am asked to withdraw m

Just to be clear.  Nobody is upset with GBU for building the car or how the team is or drives.  We are upset with how the series handled teching and point association with this car, both pre and post

Posted Images

58 minutes ago, shutupracing said:

 

 

From what I've seen (in this instance only), the rule book doesn't have flaws. The enforcement of the rule book has MAJOR flaws.

 

 

 

I think only after we fix the enforcement will we know if the VPI is correct and/or as big a role as the tires play. Too many variables right now and we need to eliminate the most obvious.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Anybody else concerned with Tech's pattern of threatening competitors who are seeking answers, petitioning or questioning the series' decisions with respect to another car? 

  • Like 18
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Snorman said:

Anybody else concerned with Tech's pattern of threatening competitors who are seeking answers, petitioning or questioning the series' decisions with respect to another car? 

 

That's one area that tech is at least consistent. 

  • Like 3
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Snorman said:

Anybody else concerned with Tech's pattern of threatening competitors who are seeking answers, petitioning or questioning the series' decisions with respect to another car? 

This, IMO is worst offense. Making a mistake is only human. Being mean and snotty is a conscious choice.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Snorman said:

Anybody else concerned with Tech's pattern of threatening competitors who are seeking answers, petitioning or questioning the series' decisions with respect to another car? 

 

I'm curious if the team that filed the protest about the stroked BMW at Gingerman received the same treatment.  Of is it only when you protest one of the big boys.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, SonsOfIrony said:

 

I'm curious if the team that filed the protest about the stroked BMW at Gingerman received the same treatment.  Of is it only when you protest one of the big boys.

It was a different tech person at that event as I watched that one happen and no issues, it was handled with a very detail explanation to the owner and then to all the other teams.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, 55mini said:

It was a different tech person at that event as I watched that one happen and no issues, it was handled with a very detail explanation to the owner and then to all the other teams.

 

So did I miss something at Gingerman? We noticed the team was being protested but then a small speech was made at the close of impound and our team was just assuming that everything had checked out. We never heard a direct statement that a team was being DQ'ed.

 

We didn't realize till a later facebook post that they had been DQ'ed.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, shutupracing said:

 

So did I miss something at Gingerman? We noticed the team was being protested but then a small speech was made at the close of impound and our team was just assuming that everything had checked out. We never heard a direct statement that a team was being DQ'ed.

 

We didn't realize till a later facebook post that they had been DQ'ed.

Ray explained in simple terms what was wrong and how he measured the stroke, I was with in a few feet during his test and watched. He also announced the DQ.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, shutupracing said:

 

 

From what I've seen (in this instance only), the rule book doesn't have flaws. The enforcement of the rule book has MAJOR flaws.

 

 

Enforcement is clearly an issue however there are some flaws or loop holes in the rules.

 

Unlimited 200tw Tires, diesel swap options, and a few odd ball VPIs are the flaws in the rule book. GBU leveraged two of the items and had help with some "odd" tech calls. 

 

With a 25k build budget and a 5k tire race budget I could build a monster that would smoke the GBU C3. It would be legal for 1 race. 

 

My ego is big enough to want a rule with "my name on it", but my cheque book isn't...

Edited by veris
  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, veris said:

 

With a 25k build budget and a 5k tire race budget I could build a monster that would smoke the GBU C3. It would be legal for 1 race. 

Do you even go through everything for $25k?  Rebuild diff, trany, engine, suspension bushings, all the safety items, and then the parts?  I guess I am the only one that makes their car like it just came off the showroom floor.

Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Final Turn Motorsports said:

Do you even go through everything for $25k?  Rebuild diff, trany, engine, suspension bushings, all the safety items, and then the parts?  I guess I am the only one that makes their car like it just came off the showroom floor.

I kinda did that and I am at about 12k all in.

 

It doesn't look the prettiest, because I did nothing to the body, but I did rebuild or refresh all the sub assemblies (except engine because it is healthy).

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, veris said:

Enforcement is clearly an issue however there are some flaws or loop holes in the rules.

 

Unlimited 200tw Tires, diesel swap options, and a few odd ball VPIs are the flaws in the rule book. GBU leveraged two of the items and had help with some "odd" tech calls. 

 

With a 25k build budget and a 5k tire race budget I could build a monster that would smoke the GBU C3. It would be legal for 1 race. 

 

My ego is big enough to want a rule with "my name on it", but my cheque book isn't...

I would think the build is in the 50K range. 10K electronics, 10K engine and tuning, Ultra rare widebody kit has to be like 10K alone, base vette that is nice to start with at like 5K, C4 IRS rear end, seat and safety items, 10K in rims and tires to start with, 1-2K brake setup, etc etc etc.

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

I would think the build is in the 50K range. 10K electronics, 10K engine and tuning, Ultra rare widebody kit has to be like 10K alone, base vette that is nice to start with at like 5K, C4 IRS rear end, seat and safety items, 10K in rims and ires to start with, 1-2K brake setup, etc etc etc.

The wide body Troy is not at all rare,  I have 2 sets.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, shutupracing said:

 

So did I miss something at Gingerman? We noticed the team was being protested but then a small speech was made at the close of impound and our team was just assuming that everything had checked out. We never heard a direct statement that a team was being DQ'ed.

 

We didn't realize till a later facebook post that they had been DQ'ed.

Yup guess you missed it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DEE DEE said:

The wide body Troy is not at all rare,  I have 2 sets.

Are they really only 15 square feet? (rhetorical question, I already know the answer, lol)

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, DEE DEE said:

Yup guess you missed it.

 

5 hours ago, 55mini said:

Ray explained in simple terms what was wrong and how he measured the stroke, I was with in a few feet during his test and watched. He also announced the DQ.

Oops. 
 

We really weren’t paying too much attention it appears. Glad to hear that’s how it went down. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/16/2020 at 8:39 PM, Bill Strong said:

 

 

actually as of last night less than 400 have added to the forum in the past month. 
 

 

FYI a lot of teams are probably like mine and @mender's where only the captain is on the forum so one stated opinion = four opinions.  Therefore 400 * 4 ~ 1,600 added to the forum over the past month.

Edited by Ron_e
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Final Turn Motorsports said:

Do you even go through everything for $25k?  Rebuild diff, trany, engine, suspension bushings, all the safety items, and then the parts?  I guess I am the only one that makes their car like it just came off the showroom floor.

Showroom adds 20k or more.

 

I don't have the time, money, or inclination to build a show ready car. 

Edited by veris
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

I would think the build is in the 50K range. 10K electronics, 10K engine and tuning, Ultra rare widebody kit has to be like 10K alone, base vette that is nice to start with at like 5K, C4 IRS rear end, seat and safety items, 10K in rims and tires to start with, 1-2K brake setup, etc etc etc.

Agreed the GBU is a big dollar build. 25k was my monster build budget. GBU build is probably twice it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Administrators

Good morning folks.  I had a great discussion with Mike Chisek and Bill Riley yesterday.  I knew that the TAC was working on about 5 or 6 additional cars that need revalued on the VPI list so for 2021 there will be some VPI changes as we were finalizing these items to put in the BCCR when we release the final version.  I have not seen a draft of the BCCR yet, but I know there are people working hard to get this completed.  Now I did suggest that the GBU go through tech with a TAC member present so the car could be revalued appropriately to make sure there were no items missed.  Now we can't take back what happened on Saturday at impound.  I am sorry for how Rob was treated by the ChampCar staff and I know Mike has talked with Rob.  As a BOD I want to make sure rules are being applied correctly and to all teams the same way.  We need more items in the BCCR from the Tech Desk and from these tech rulings at races.  That is why the Tech Desk was setup.  The only thing this will make happen is for the rule book getting longer, but teams should be able to build more to the BCCR and not to Tech Desk rulings.

 

Bill Riley said he is working with ChampCar to make it right and to make sure everything is 100% correct on his car, that is why I suggested the re-tech at Road America with a TAC member present.  Again there is no problem with Bill's build, it is how the points are applied.  I think if the GBU started with laps and had an epic chase down that would be the spirit of ChampCar.   We are not perfect, we are all human and we are doing what we can to help bring parity where we can.  

 

As always if you have any questions then feel free to reach out to me.  This is all the information I know at this time and what we are currently working on. 

  • Like 8
  • Thanks 17
Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, E. Tyler Pedersen said:

Good morning folks.  I had a great discussion with Mike Chisek and Bill Riley yesterday.  I knew that the TAC was working on about 5 or 6 additional cars that need revalued on the VPI list so for 2021 there will be some VPI changes as we were finalizing these items to put in the BCCR when we release the final version.  I have not seen a draft of the BCCR yet, but I know there are people working hard to get this completed.  Now I did suggest that the GBU go through tech with a TAC member present so the car could be revalued appropriately to make sure there were no items missed.  Now we can't take back what happened on Saturday at impound.  I am sorry for how Rob was treated by the ChampCar staff and I know Mike has talked with Rob.  As a BOD I want to make sure rules are being applied correctly and to all teams the same way.  We need more items in the BCCR from the Tech Desk and from these tech rulings at races.  That is why the Tech Desk was setup.  The only thing this will make happen is for the rule book getting longer, but teams should be able to build more to the BCCR and not to Tech Desk rulings.

 

Bill Riley said he is working with ChampCar to make it right and to make sure everything is 100% correct on his car, that is why I suggested the re-tech at Road America with a TAC member present.  Again there is no problem with Bill's build, it is how the points are applied.  I think if the GBU started with laps and had an epic chase down that would be the spirit of ChampCar.   We are not perfect, we are all human and we are doing what we can to help bring parity where we can.  

 

As always if you have any questions then feel free to reach out to me.  This is all the information I know at this time and what we are currently working on. 

 

Tyler, thank you for updating us.

 

I honestly don't think 1 large failure lead to the GBU unicorn.  It was many small failures, and I firmly believe the BOD will make the right decision to rein them in.

 

I can't say until I've raced against them personally if the speed differential is unsafe.  If it not, then I would like to see them continue to run the car with enough penalty laps to allow a race to the finish.  Sundays race was far more exciting (stressful) to listen to.  Congrats on the win, no one deserves it more, and you earned the heck out of it.  See you at Road America.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...