Good Bad and Ugly Discussion.

[Ben 595 111]

https://www.racingjunk.com/Vintage/184061703/69-82-Corvette-barn-find.html?category_id=4438&np_offset=32

 

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPXINEvsila62oBiM0bDRbt-k98QClOEGQ8Y4NHYAEWNWwZqVMLusgFCutr3zzZHg?key=dDJsUGZxTTI4TU83dkhCUEd1WUtnbWlCaHZtZjJn

 

Little more than most starter builds but... might be fast once you put $20k into it. 

[MoparBoyy 1,355]

interesting.. can see what OEM frame rails look like in those pictures to compare to the GBU car.

[Gkuhn41 344]

On 9/23/2020 at 5:18 PM, mender said:

Let's adjust that for comparing to a 2700 lb car, and remember to use actual race weight and not swap calculator "weight". 

 

If your car is more than about 11:1 PWR, 135 lb/gallon, and less than 10mm/lb tire width you may have to drive harder.  

 

If you are within about 10% of these numbers, you are most likely at the pointy end.

 

im assuming you meant 10lb/mm on tire width no?

[mender 8,164]

6 hours ago, Gkuhn41 said:

 

im assuming you meant 10lb/mm on tire width no?

Yes. Typed too fast again, thanks for catching that.

[Snake 1,724]

On 9/14/2020 at 11:45 AM, red0 said:

 

I asked tech about this in impound as well as a few other items after receiving some FB messenger messages from Champcar teams not at the event. Tech said they had looked into this and it came on 5k+ cars thus making it not a special model. 

 

This is actually hilarious and sad at the same time.   I was with my friends 3300 mile 78 pace car in the hanger on Wed.   I guess tech knows more than the manufacture and can reclassify cars.   What a fracking joke.  

 

 

[enginerd 6,508]

34 minutes ago, Snake said:

 

This is actually hilarious and sad at the same time.   I was with my friends 3300 mile 78 pace car in the hanger on Wed.   I guess tech knows more than the manufacture and can reclassify cars.   What a fracking joke.  

 

 

Limited to how many? 6000?

[Snake 1,724]

36 minutes ago, enginerd said:

Limited to how many? 6000?

 

6,502 out of 46,776 total

[Ron_e 4,841]

Pretty much the only words are wah, wah, wah... for those who have never heard of The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly. 

 

 

 

[MoparBoyy 1,355]

they made 5,258 1995 cobras, i guess i missed the section in the BCCR that says the cutoff is somewhere between 5500 to 6000 so that its no longer 'special edition'

[enginerd 6,508]

It looks like GBU started the Road America races with 5 penalty laps after a re-tech on Friday. They must have added ~30 points of parts since the Sunday Indy race, because we were told in no uncertain terms that the car was legal and accurately valued there.

[Kentite 529]

1 hour ago, enginerd said:

It looks like GBU started the Road America races with 5 penalty laps after a re-tech on Friday. They must have added ~30 points of parts since the Sunday Indy race, because we were told in no uncertain terms that the car was legal and accurately valued there.

They only won by 3 laps after starting 5 down on such a short track like Road America?!?!  Obviously the playing field is level and there is nothing more worth discussing. 

[atxe30 109]

I pulled the Sunday data. Basically:

 

Best Lap Times across the field:

GBU: 2:37.3

Overall Mean: 2:56.9

Slowest: 3:22.1

 

Delta from GBU to P2: 7.8

Delta from GBU to Mean 19.6

Delta from GBU to Slowest: 44.8

--------------------------------------

 

So if they ended up at 550 Pts after the re-tech, but still have same P/W...........something is wrong with the rule structurally. Show me another car in the VPI table at 550 pts that has a similar P/W number...I'll wait.......

[55mini 747]

Watching the car run all weekend it is fast.......really fast. It walked away from the other newer vettes which are the top runners in the other series. Do we think that shows a problem with the values assigned and teched. I asked about motor internals and was told no one knows????? I was told it was just run on the dyno so maybe someone knows to P/W ratio.

[petawawarace 208]

Did anyone protest it? Or was it allowed to skip impound?? lol

[veris 161]

2 hours ago, atxe30 said:

I pulled the Sunday data. Basically:

 

Best Lap Times across the field:

GBU: 2:37.3

Overall Mean: 2:56.9

Slowest: 3:22.1

 

Delta from GBU to P2: 7.8

Delta from GBU to Mean 19.6

Delta from GBU to Slowest: 44.8

--------------------------------------

 

So if they ended up at 550 Pts after the re-tech, but still have same P/W...........something is wrong with the rule structurally. Show me another car in the VPI table at 550 pts that has a similar P/W number...I'll wait.......

 

VPI jumps to 300 from 150 January. That probably solves this problem. 

[Final Turn Motorsports 80]

8 minutes ago, veris said:

 

VPI jumps to 300 from 150 January. That probably solves this problem. 

But they get to run the Road America Championship next year with this rule set..  this is exactly how the car will show up, next year, and win, if it doesn't break.

[veris 161]

I don't believe that is true. VPI change as indicated at January 1, 2021. 

 

Can anyone on the board confirm? 

 

 

[LuckyKid 849]

I bet they could trade 50pts for tenths and get 5 laps back.

[Final Turn Motorsports 80]

16 minutes ago, veris said:

I don't believe that is true. VPI change as indicated at January 1, 2021. 

 

Can anyone on the board confirm? 

 

 

The championship race is based on previous years rule book, so the car that qualified is the car that races.

[Final Turn Motorsports 80]

[Wink 172]

@Final Turn Motorsports, I'm not sure that the car has to be on a previous rule set. At Sonoma our car was not "as raced" in 2019. And we had more room to play with from 19 to 20's rules. There was no comparison to previous log book entries. In fact, we had to make a change to the 20 rules, granted it was on the fire bottle (a safety item)

You might want to get clarification 

[Final Turn Motorsports 80]

Just now, Wink said:

@Final Turn Motorsports, I'm not sure that the car has to be on a previous rule set. At Sonoma our car was not "as raced" in 2019. And we had more room to play with from 19 to 20's rules. There was no comparison to previous log book entries. In fact, we had to make a change to the 20 rules, granted it was on the fire bottle (a safety item)

You might want to get clarification 

The way they can interpret the rules, trust me, it say, "bring the same car you raced to qualify." That would imply as raced.  Safety items are a touch different, but the car was raced as a D car at whatever points they are now, that would hold true to the championship.

[CBraden 248]

4 hours ago, atxe30 said:

I pulled the Sunday data. Basically:

 

Best Lap Times across the field:

GBU: 2:37.3

Overall Mean: 2:56.9

Slowest: 3:22.1

 

Delta from GBU to P2: 7.8

Delta from GBU to Mean 19.6

Delta from GBU to Slowest: 44.8

--------------------------------------

 

So if they ended up at 550 Pts after the re-tech, but still have same P/W...........something is wrong with the rule structurally. Show me another car in the VPI table at 550 pts that has a similar P/W number...I'll wait.......

 

I agree. The swap calculator has similar issues. Ironically, my car has a _far_ worse pwr/weight ration than the GBU car, but it is 17,000 plus points.  However - you can find SBC V8 and SBF V8 engines from the smog era that can be made to run like the GBU car, but have hp numbers in the 150hp range. Add heads cam, intake, and headers... and it doesn't matter what car they came out of... so basically anyone can swap in any amount of hp they want as long as they pick a smog era V8 and have points to add H/C/I/E.

 

 

 

 

[91AU 5]

6 minutes ago, CBraden said:

 

I agree. The swap calculator has similar issues. Ironically, my car has a _far_ worse pwr/weight ration than the GBU car, but it is 17,000 plus points.  However - you can find SBC V8 and SBF V8 engines from the smog era that can be made to run like the GBU car, but have hp numbers in the 150hp range. Add heads cam, intake, and headers... and it doesn't matter what car they came out of... so basically anyone can swap in any amount of hp they want as long as they pick a smog era V8 and have points to add H/C/I/E.

 

 

 

 

Just a thought; Has Champcar ever invoked Rule #2.2.2 on a 500 point car

2.2.2. ChampCar reserves the right to deny entry to any EC car if ChampCar determines the car to be excessively superior in power, braking, top speed or other factors that ChampCar feels would be unsafe or disruptive to any event.

[veris 161]

1 hour ago, LuckyKid said:

I bet they could trade 50pts for tenths and get 5 laps back.

I concur. There are areas that could be changed with minimal impact to performance. 50 points easily. 

 

They are now a 550 car. Come January however they are a 700 point car. 

 

I am less convinced they can remove 150+points for minimum performance impact. I suspect they will just have a competitive car with 2hrs of fuel vs a dominant one.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by veris