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Good morning folks.  I had a great discussion with Mike Chisek and Bill Riley yesterday.  I knew that the TAC was working on about 5 or 6 additional cars that need revalued on the VPI list so for 2021

My story.  I'm not one for protesting.  Have never done it. I also understand that post race tech, whether protested by a team or discovered by tech, illegal is illegal.  When I am asked to withdraw m

Just to be clear.  Nobody is upset with GBU for building the car or how the team is or drives.  We are upset with how the series handled teching and point association with this car, both pre and post

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On 9/23/2020 at 5:18 PM, mender said:

Let's adjust that for comparing to a 2700 lb car, and remember to use actual race weight and not swap calculator "weight". 

 

If your car is more than about 11:1 PWR, 135 lb/gallon, and less than 10mm/lb tire width you may have to drive harder. :) 

 

If you are within about 10% of these numbers, you are most likely at the pointy end.

 

im assuming you meant 10lb/mm on tire width no?

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On 9/14/2020 at 11:45 AM, red0 said:

 

I asked tech about this in impound as well as a few other items after receiving some FB messenger messages from Champcar teams not at the event. Tech said they had looked into this and it came on 5k+ cars thus making it not a special model. 

 

This is actually hilarious and sad at the same time.   I was with my friends 3300 mile 78 pace car in the hanger on Wed.   I guess tech knows more than the manufacture and can reclassify cars.   What a fracking joke.  

 

 

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34 minutes ago, Snake said:

 

This is actually hilarious and sad at the same time.   I was with my friends 3300 mile 78 pace car in the hanger on Wed.   I guess tech knows more than the manufacture and can reclassify cars.   What a fracking joke.  

 

 

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Limited to how many? 6000?

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they made 5,258 1995 cobras, i guess i missed the section in the BCCR that says the cutoff is somewhere between 5500 to 6000 so that its no longer 'special edition'

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  • 2 weeks later...

It looks like GBU started the Road America races with 5 penalty laps after a re-tech on Friday. They must have added ~30 points of parts since the Sunday Indy race, because we were told in no uncertain terms that the car was legal and accurately valued there.

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1 hour ago, enginerd said:

It looks like GBU started the Road America races with 5 penalty laps after a re-tech on Friday. They must have added ~30 points of parts since the Sunday Indy race, because we were told in no uncertain terms that the car was legal and accurately valued there.

They only won by 3 laps after starting 5 down on such a short track like Road America?!?!  Obviously the playing field is level and there is nothing more worth discussing. 

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I pulled the Sunday data. Basically:

 

Best Lap Times across the field:

GBU: 2:37.3

Overall Mean: 2:56.9

Slowest: 3:22.1

 

Delta from GBU to P2: 7.8

Delta from GBU to Mean 19.6

Delta from GBU to Slowest: 44.8

--------------------------------------

 

So if they ended up at 550 Pts after the re-tech, but still have same P/W...........something is wrong with the rule structurally. Show me another car in the VPI table at 550 pts that has a similar P/W number...I'll wait.......

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Watching the car run all weekend it is fast.......really fast. It walked away from the other newer vettes which are the top runners in the other series. Do we think that shows a problem with the values assigned and teched. I asked about motor internals and was told no one knows????? I was told it was just run on the dyno so maybe someone knows to P/W ratio.

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2 hours ago, atxe30 said:

I pulled the Sunday data. Basically:

 

Best Lap Times across the field:

GBU: 2:37.3

Overall Mean: 2:56.9

Slowest: 3:22.1

 

Delta from GBU to P2: 7.8

Delta from GBU to Mean 19.6

Delta from GBU to Slowest: 44.8

--------------------------------------

 

So if they ended up at 550 Pts after the re-tech, but still have same P/W...........something is wrong with the rule structurally. Show me another car in the VPI table at 550 pts that has a similar P/W number...I'll wait.......

 

VPI jumps to 300 from 150 January. That probably solves this problem. 

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@Final Turn Motorsports, I'm not sure that the car has to be on a previous rule set. At Sonoma our car was not "as raced" in 2019. And we had more room to play with from 19 to 20's rules. There was no comparison to previous log book entries. In fact, we had to make a change to the 20 rules, granted it was on the fire bottle (a safety item)

You might want to get clarification 

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Just now, Wink said:

@Final Turn Motorsports, I'm not sure that the car has to be on a previous rule set. At Sonoma our car was not "as raced" in 2019. And we had more room to play with from 19 to 20's rules. There was no comparison to previous log book entries. In fact, we had to make a change to the 20 rules, granted it was on the fire bottle (a safety item)

You might want to get clarification 

The way they can interpret the rules, trust me, it say, "bring the same car you raced to qualify." That would imply as raced.  Safety items are a touch different, but the car was raced as a D car at whatever points they are now, that would hold true to the championship.

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4 hours ago, atxe30 said:

I pulled the Sunday data. Basically:

 

Best Lap Times across the field:

GBU: 2:37.3

Overall Mean: 2:56.9

Slowest: 3:22.1

 

Delta from GBU to P2: 7.8

Delta from GBU to Mean 19.6

Delta from GBU to Slowest: 44.8

--------------------------------------

 

So if they ended up at 550 Pts after the re-tech, but still have same P/W...........something is wrong with the rule structurally. Show me another car in the VPI table at 550 pts that has a similar P/W number...I'll wait.......

 

I agree. The swap calculator has similar issues. Ironically, my car has a _far_ worse pwr/weight ration than the GBU car, but it is 17,000 plus points.  However - you can find SBC V8 and SBF V8 engines from the smog era that can be made to run like the GBU car, but have hp numbers in the 150hp range. Add heads cam, intake, and headers... and it doesn't matter what car they came out of... so basically anyone can swap in any amount of hp they want as long as they pick a smog era V8 and have points to add H/C/I/E.

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, CBraden said:

 

I agree. The swap calculator has similar issues. Ironically, my car has a _far_ worse pwr/weight ration than the GBU car, but it is 17,000 plus points.  However - you can find SBC V8 and SBF V8 engines from the smog era that can be made to run like the GBU car, but have hp numbers in the 150hp range. Add heads cam, intake, and headers... and it doesn't matter what car they came out of... so basically anyone can swap in any amount of hp they want as long as they pick a smog era V8 and have points to add H/C/I/E.

 

 

 

 

Just a thought; Has Champcar ever invoked Rule #2.2.2 on a 500 point car

 

2.2.2. ChampCar reserves the right to deny entry to any EC car if ChampCar determines the car to be

excessively superior in power, braking, top speed or other factors that ChampCar feels would be unsafe or

disruptive to any event.

   
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1 hour ago, LuckyKid said:

I bet they could trade 50pts for tenths and get 5 laps back.

I concur. There are areas that could be changed with minimal impact to performance. 50 points easily. 

 

They are now a 550 car. Come January however they are a 700 point car. 

 

I am less convinced they can remove 150+points for minimum performance impact. I suspect they will just have a competitive car with 2hrs of fuel vs a dominant one.

 

 

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