Jump to content

Good Bad and Ugly Discussion.


Recommended Posts

They started 9 down I believe happened to look at the race monitor in the morning.

 

Its a 150 vpi car, I think you can make lots of those cars fast since they have huge thanks, large displacement and low vpi.

But it takes work since they are turds. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 591
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Good morning folks.  I had a great discussion with Mike Chisek and Bill Riley yesterday.  I knew that the TAC was working on about 5 or 6 additional cars that need revalued on the VPI list so for 2021

My story.  I'm not one for protesting.  Have never done it. I also understand that post race tech, whether protested by a team or discovered by tech, illegal is illegal.  When I am asked to withdraw m

Just to be clear.  Nobody is upset with GBU for building the car or how the team is or drives.  We are upset with how the series handled teching and point association with this car, both pre and post

Posted Images

55 minutes ago, turbogrill said:

They started 9 down I believe happened to look at the race monitor in the morning.

 

Its a 150 vpi car, I think you can make lots of those cars fast since they have huge thanks, large displacement and low vpi.

But it takes work since they are turds. 

They polish up just fine...

 

I wish I had the money and time to build a new car that takes advantage of the rules as they change.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Team Infiniti said:

Hmmm, thought that was dropped, can anyone confirm how many laps GBU had starting day 2?

 


I have gotten an MOV penalty within the last year.
image.png.4b363edbc9558216e6e030a006eb7a62.png
Is that a stock piece? 

I saw many bits and pieces of metal which he declared no points for. I have accounted for every little bit of metal and plastic on my car.. I see an arguably low value for fiberglass only.
image.png.da012f12e1044767913b0316bd3da8cb.png

Unfortunately I am not an expert in these chassis so someone will have to correct me if any of this is stock.

Also that looks like one of those cute little racing alternators I've been wanting to try, with a custom bracket. How many points were allocated for those?

 

image.png

Edited by Slugworks Paul
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, turbogrill said:

So fast in corners? Seems heavy?

 

I caught it in a few in camera shots.  It was motoring away on the straights, but not in the twistyies, the BMW's were able to keep up and kind of push in the corners.

 

That Vette is heavy, probably close to or North of 3000 lbs.

 

Taking that strut bar off that everyone is up in arms about wouldn't slow it down.  Anyway, how's it any different than a front K member or a strut bar on a Mustang?  If you are allowed to put a strut bar on other cars, it stands to reason they should be able to effectively install a similar component to achieve the same goal provided that pay points for it which they did.

 

Lastly, There are plenty of C4's out there and none of them have come close to tasting that level of speed and only one Mustang has shown any consistent capabilty of front running.

 

There are certainly other (old) cars besides the C3 that could be built in the same vein that would like be as fast or faster, don't kid yourself.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I applaud them for building such a fast, awesome car.

That being said, it is so far from the intent of Champcar its not even funny.  Just from those pictures, there are multiple things that are "grey".  Beating the competition by 9 laps both days is ridiculous and clearly shows that there is an issue with the rules, or how they are enforced.  Not to mention the fuel , tire and brake cost that thing must go through. That's not what this series is meant to be about IMO.  Not sure what can be done about this, but if something big isn't done, you'll see more of these cars built and more of the "regular" guys leave the series.

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Slugworks Paul said:


image.png.da012f12e1044767913b0316bd3da8cb.png

Unfortunately I am not an expert in these chassis so someone will have to correct me if any of this is stock.

 

 

 

 

Those mounting brackets are from the C4 swap.  If you payed for the swap, you have to be able to mount it.  The mounting brackets came with the swap.  You can argue if that is the way it should be or not though.  Kind of like an engine swap, carry the mounts from the swapped engine and use them, that is what was done on the rear IRS swap here.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, 67Mustang said:

 

Those mounting brackets are from the C4 swap.  If you payed for the swap, you have to be able to mount it.  The mounting brackets came with the swap.  You can argue if that is the way it should be or not though.  Kind of like an engine swap, carry the mounts from the swapped engine and use them, that is what was done on the rear IRS swap here.


That covers one of the items, how about the others?

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, 67Mustang said:

 

I caught it in a few in camera shots.  It was motoring away on the straights, but not in the twistyies, the BMW's were able to keep up and kind of push in the corners.

 

That Vette is heavy, probably close to or North of 3000 lbs.

 

Taking that strut bar off that everyone is up in arms about wouldn't slow it down.  Anyway, how's it any different than a front K member or a strut bar on a Mustang?  If you are allowed to put a strut bar on other cars, it stands to reason they should be able to effectively install a similar component to achieve the same goal provided that pay points for it which they did.

 

Lastly, There are plenty of C4's out there and none of them have come close to tasting that level of speed and only one Mustang has shown any consistent capabilty of front running.

 

There are certainly other (old) cars besides the C3 that could be built in the same vein that would like be as fast or faster, don't kid yourself.


You miss the point entirely. Whether or not you agree with the rules, or the relative impact of each rule or point value has zero bearing on the conversation of whether the car is legal.

I'd love to see you try to beat GBU - how'd you finish your last race?

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Slugworks Paul said:


That covers one of the items, how about the others?

 

Which others?  I imagine the dropped drivers floor pan was to allow the drivers seat to sit lower.  You can drop the floor as far as I know.  They only did it on the drivers side...

 

The billet alt bracket probably has a beef.

 

square foot on fiberglass? 15 square feet is a good bit of surface area.  If I was claiming that crap, I would have the pattern drawn out on a full size section of paper or cardboard in the flat just to prove that area was correct, but that is just me. It's no different than a metal fender being sliced, pulled out two inches and then having a 2"  section welded in place.  It's just done differently working with fiberglass.  

 

Paul, Your car was only a couple of seconds off the C3 at Daytona,  actually, I think you got within 1 second, and that is a huge power track.  Its's not like they are running away from you.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Slugworks Paul said:


You miss the point entirely. Whether or not you agree with the rules, or the relative impact of each rule or point value has zero bearing on the conversation of whether the car is legal.

I'd love to see you try to beat GBU - how'd you finish your last race?

 

You well know I was not out there.

 

Like I just said, Your car was within 1 second of that C3 at Daytona...  Why do you think it is not legal and your car is?

 

I assume this is exactly the reason NO old 911's are allowed out on the track?

Edited by 67Mustang
Link to post
Share on other sites

Keep in mind the 45pts of fiberglass could likely go down substantially with some mods.  With those points they could pay for some grey area stuff.  

The root of the issue is a 150pt VPI,  same as a K-car, on a platform that can open up serious power with the drivetrain, brakes, hubs, wheels and fuel to support it.   

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, 67Mustang said:

 

You well know I was not out there.

 

Like I just said, Your car was within 1 second of that C3 at Daytona...  Why do you think it is not legal and your car is?

 

I assume this is exactly the reason NO old 911's are allowed out on the track?

 I don't 'well know' anything about you. What's your name and what team do you race with?

You must not even know how to look up race results - I was nearly 4 seconds off his fast lap, and I had about 10 more hours of practice at daytona than they did when they DNFd. Given their issues I have no reason to believe they were even at full clip.

I'll again reiterate - the rules do not govern speed, citing lap times as an argument for legality is completely moot.

Edited by Slugworks Paul
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, LuckyKid said:

Keep in mind the 45pts of fiberglass could likely go down substantially with some mods.  With those points they could pay for some grey area stuff.  

The root of the issue is a 150pt VPI,  same as a K-car, on a platform that can open up serious power with the drivetrain, brakes, hubs, wheels and fuel to support it.   

 

I agree, but this is the entire point of this type of racing, having a vast array of cars competing and being somewhat level. Even though the car is fast, it still has to finish the race.

 

It's not going to be 4-5 seconds a lap faster at shorter tracks AND there are at least a couple of cars within reach of it on lap times on the big tracks.  Plus as it stands, they still only run 1:30 ish on that big tank.

 

I didn't see 95 Mustangs get points added when Crowd Control started winning, I do remember Paul had to deal with some points adjustment that was untimely, but to his credit (even though he seems to be bashing me) he dealt with it and still won, and with a car close to the GBU car in lap times.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So 25 pts for a TB.  Is this thing fuel injected?  Is there a cost associated with swapping from carb to fuel injection? 

 

That manifold looks like it is for vortec style heads.  I know the heads are accounted for and so is the intake, but at what point is that not the right engine for that car?

 

Basically, it seems the vpi is artificially low and then tack on the recent ruling about getting the entire irs with diff for 50 pt....

 

Also, Paul's fast lap was 3.8 seconds slower than this vette at Daytona just to set the record straight.

 

In other words, a car with a huge power to weight advantage over most of the field got walked by almost 4 seconds by this vette.

 

 

I would like to say that I don't think they are cheating.  I think the rules interpretations and free items and artificially low vpi all led to this being built.

Edited by wvumtnbkr
  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Slugworks Paul said:

 I don't 'well know' anything about you. What's your name and what team do you race with?

You must not even know how to look up race results - I was nearly 4 seconds off his fast lap, and I had about 10 more hours of practice at daytona than they did when they DNFd. Given their issues I have no reason to believe they were even at full clip.

I'll again reiterate - the rules do not govern speed, citing lap times as an argument for legality is completely moot.

 

I stand corrected, mixed your fine machine up with Tuttle who ran a 2:10 at Daytona.  My apologies for giving you extra credit for lap times lol.

 

Fast laps for two cars, assuming they are both built within the stated rules set, is a reference for competitiveness... and if they were within the rules, they are legal.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, 67Mustang said:

 

I stand corrected, mixed your fine machine up with Tuttle who ran a 2:10 at Daytona.  My apologies for giving you extra credit for lap times lol.

 

Fast laps for two cars, assuming they are both built within the stated rules set, is a reference for competitiveness... and if they were within the rules, they are legal.


It is something to consider but has no bearing on legality.

Prefer to remain anonymous?

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

So 25 pts for a TB.  Is this thing fuel injected?  Is there a cost associated with swapping from carb to fuel injection? 

 

That manifold looks like it is for vortec style heads.  I know the heads are accounted for and so is the intake, but at what point is that not the right engine for that car?

 

Basically, it seems the vpi is artificially low and then tack on the recent ruling about getting the entire irs with diff for 50 pt....

 

Also, Paul's fast lap was 3.8 seconds slower than this vette at Daytona just to set the record straight.

 

In other words, a car with a huge power to weight advantage over most of the field got walked by almost 4 seconds by this vette.

 

51 minutes ago, Huggy said:

image.thumb.png.6c4aff3e984553d2f16ba3ecb58872d9.png

That car was actually cheaty when it first came in the series.  

 

I believe those guys ended up making it legal and it was still pretty fast.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, 67Mustang said:

 

I agree, but this is the entire point of this type of racing, having a vast array of cars competing and being somewhat level. Even though the car is fast, it still has to finish the race.

 

It's not going to be 4-5 seconds a lap faster at shorter tracks AND there are at least a couple of cars within reach of it on lap times on the big tracks.  Plus as it stands, they still only run 1:30 ish on that big tank.

 

I didn't see 95 Mustangs get points added when Crowd Control started winning, I do remember Paul had to deal with some points adjustment that was untimely, but to his credit (even though he seems to be bashing me) he dealt with it and still won, and with a car close to the GBU car in lap times.

Lets ignore what team it is for a second.

C3 Corvette - 150pts
+ C4 Rear Suspension + Swap = 250pts for over 350rwhp, and a big tank 

GBU decided to add heads and a cam and what not, but the platform can become a monster.  

We've seen that gap in the rules for over a season, but we figured it would get corrected quickly as soon as someone actually built it and I didn't want to be sitting on a $20,000+ EC build that costs an arm and a leg to race.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Slugworks Paul said:


It is something to consider but has no bearing on legality.

Prefer to remain anonymous?

 

Why does it matter?  Does my name somehow make my comments more or less credible? People know know me lol.  I'm just another face no different than you .

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, 67Mustang said:

 

Those mounting brackets are from the C4 swap.  If you payed for the swap, you have to be able to mount it.  The mounting brackets came with the swap.  You can argue if that is the way it should be or not though.  Kind of like an engine swap, carry the mounts from the swapped engine and use them, that is what was done on the rear IRS swap here.

 

First off, there is NOTHING in the BCCR that says you get to install suspension and drivetrain from a different car for 50 points.   and yes you have to pay points for any materials you need to make it work, its not just 'free'

 

9 minutes ago, 67Mustang said:

I didn't see 95 Mustangs get points added when Crowd Control started winning, I do remember Paul had to deal with some points adjustment that was untimely, but to his credit (even though he seems to be bashing me) he dealt with it and still won, and with a car close to the GBU car in lap times.

 

we have 2 wins, both were around 45 second lead and they were 7 and 8hr races.  We've never been 5+ seconds a lap faster than the entire field (including EC) or won by 9+ laps.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...