Jump to content

Good Bad and Ugly Discussion.


Recommended Posts

The question everyone needs to be asking themselves is if you and your team brought that car through tech what would it be valued at?   Would the front tubes be considered a strut tower bar for you?   We all know they arent.    How many rules are they going to change for this team?   By my count we are at 3 currently, more may come out.  

Edited by Snake
  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 591
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Good morning folks.  I had a great discussion with Mike Chisek and Bill Riley yesterday.  I knew that the TAC was working on about 5 or 6 additional cars that need revalued on the VPI list so for 2021

My story.  I'm not one for protesting.  Have never done it. I also understand that post race tech, whether protested by a team or discovered by tech, illegal is illegal.  When I am asked to withdraw m

Just to be clear.  Nobody is upset with GBU for building the car or how the team is or drives.  We are upset with how the series handled teching and point association with this car, both pre and post

Posted Images

3 minutes ago, Snake said:

The question everyone needs to be asking themselves is if you and your team brought that car through tech what would it be valued at?   Would the front tubes be considered a strut tower bar for you?   We all know it isn't.    How many rules are they going to change for this team?   By my count we are at 3 currently, more may come out.  

I disagree, knowing how to work a rule book from a professional level is eye-opening.

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

I disagree, knowing how to work a rule book from a professional level is eye-opening.

 

The rule book is being rewritten along with being "worked"

Edited by Snake
Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

I disagree, knowing how to work a rule book from a professional level is eye-opening.

 

True, which is why the rule book needs to be reworked by people who have been or are at the professional level instead of just being exploited by same.

 

Congratulations to Bill Riley for breaking the Champcar rule book. Even books can only be bent so far...

Edited by mender
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

I disagree, knowing how to work a rule book from a professional level is eye-opening.

 

 

The 50 points for entire suspension/driveline only came out AFTER this car tech'd at Daytona.  previous to that suspension swaps were valued suspension item like the BCCR states.

Edited by MoparBoyy
  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, mender said:

True, which is why the rule book needs to be reworked by people who have been or are at the professional level instead of just being exploited by same.

 

Congratulations to Bill Reilly for breaking the Champcar rule book. Even books can only be bent so far...

you either need to add an O or subtract an L and re-arrange some letters.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, MoparBoyy said:

 

The 50 points for entire suspension/driveline only came out AFTER this car tech'd at Daytona.  previous to that suspension swaps were valued suspension item like the BCCR states.

 

That is the way we approached it when considering a C3.  Our "mistake" was not asking tech I guess.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 A reasonable protective and supportive square and/ or round tubular structures may be installed around any fuel cell PROVIDED that the structure DOES NOT connect-to, or tie-into any suspension point or suspension pick-up point, or add to the general rigidity of the chassis, or provide any performance advantage whatsoever. Fuel cell protective structures may be attached to portions of the main roll-cage. Tech Inspection may assess additional points for any structure(s) that violate this rule.

 

From the pictures posted, it looks like they are using the fuel cell structure to hold the rear suspension in place (picture looking underneath from the rear). Not to mention how much rigidity it adds across the frame rails and where the rollcage ties in as well.

Edited by petawawarace
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, red0 said:

I snapped a few crappy pictures in impound for anyone who was not there to see what is being discussed. 

spacer.png

spacer.png

 

spacer.png

spacer.png

spacer.png

As a professional engine builder I'd like to take a look under the valve covers to see what kind of valve train they're running. Pretty sure it won't resemble OEM stuff. Also, part numbers on the heads, intake, carb; you know, so we can see if they came from a car that is on the VPI list. 

 

Nice of tech to drop the nominal exhaust manifold points, I see they're still using the wrong parts there but now without any penalty. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, red0 said:

I snapped a few crappy pictures in impound for anyone who was not there to see what is being discussed. 

spacer.png

spacer.png

 

spacer.png

 

 

spacer.png

 

spacer.png

 

 

 

Wait a minute....  they got 18 points added to their log book for Sunday based on this log book versus the one shown on the 1st page.

 

How was that not a dq or ec for saturday?

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
  • Confused 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, mender said:

 

Nice of tech to drop the nominal exhaust manifold points, I see they're still using the wrong parts there but now without any penalty. 

 

Rulebook doesn't say anything about engine parts claimed for points having to come from another vehicle.  Only engines for swaps have to come from the list.  You can add all the high dollar aftermarket stuff you want as long as you take points for them.  I'm glad they decided to use most of their points on power parts rather than aero.  Imagine how fast it would be with a mild L82 and full aero?

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, mender said:

 Pretty sure it won't resemble OEM stuff. Also, part numbers on the heads, intake, carb; you know, so we can see if they came from a car that is on the VPI list. 

Heads / intake / etc. do not need to come from a VPI list car. I think it’s just engine swap / trans swap that require that now. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, enginerd said:

Heads / intake / etc. do not need to come from a VPI list car. I think it’s just engine swap / trans swap that require that now. 

Differential as well

Edited by Team Infiniti
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, karman1970 said:

 

Rulebook doesn't say anything about engine parts claimed for points having to come from another vehicle.  Only engines for swaps have to come from the list.  You can add all the high dollar aftermarket stuff you want as long as you take points for them.  I'm glad they decided to use most of their points on power parts rather than aero.  Imagine how fast it would be with a mild L82 and full aero?

More examples of rules that should be reworked.

 

But hey, what do I know, I'm just a professional engine builder that also was a car and crew chief in NASCAR for a few years.

Edited by mender
Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, karman1970 said:

Imagine how fast it would be with a mild L82 and full aero?

 

Looks like they are getting aero for free now... so.. what does it matter what they spend points on?

Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Wait a minute....  they got 18 points added to their log book for Sunday based on this log book versus the one shown on the 1st page.

 

How was that not a dq or ec for saturday?

 

Heck id be happy if i could read what was added. I see steel something 8 pts and M. something for 10 points.

 

Edit: copied the immage and zoomed in.

 

M. Pullys for 10 points so they got charged for the pullys on the motor.

 

 

Edited by Gkuhn41
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

pulleys is one of those, can't read doctors scratch for the other.

 

You guys seems to be ignoring the lack of a claimed oil pan.  Wouldn't this be about the first sbc that lasted a race without road race oil pan?

Edited by 67Mustang
  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, 67Mustang said:

pulleys is one of those, can't read doctors scratch for the other

 

I asked tech what the (2) items they added, and they stated it was pulleys and material points for steel. 

One of the maybe 20 things that our club members pointed out as not legal , not claimed, or highly questionable impound Saturday was all the material to hang the completely non OE fiberglass body valued at 45 points. All the steel brackets and frame work to hold the body to the frame was not claimed. That would be what the material points was for IIRC. 

  • Like 5
  • Sad 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

steel could have been for the IRS mounting points I suppose.  Would answer some earlier questions.  Those points would not seem to go into affect until 2022 though lol

 

8 pts would be what about 4 sq feet of steel?  2 pts per sqtf

Edited by 67Mustang
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, 67Mustang said:

pulleys is one of those, can't read doctors scratch for the other.

 

You guys seems to be ignoring the lack of a claimed oil pan.  Wouldn't this be about the first sbc that lasted a race without road race oil pan?

I read that they repurposed the mechanical fuel pump for an oil pump?  But then added the electric fuel pump?  Not sure how true that is? Plus they did claim an oil accumulator.  

Edited by petawawarace
Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Wait a minute....  they got 18 points added to their log book for Sunday based on this log book versus the one shown on the 1st page.

 

How was that not a dq or ec for saturday?

 

Normally if a protest is accepted the race director has the ability to decide if the car will be placed in EC or the value of the items gets added on to the finish by laps. 

This wasn't the case as the protest was not accepted by tech because the 5+ bars and 10' of tubing used to build an entire front sub structure tying the cage to the frame to the suframe etc. was considered a 'strut bar'. 

The laps were not given to GBU on Saturday, but were added on top of the MOV for Sunday as some sort of after the fact re-evaluation for Sunday. 
 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Confused 1
  • Sad 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, MoparBoyy said:

 

Looks like they are getting aero for free now... so.. what does it matter what they spend points on?

Yeah, not sure how I feel about the compete wide body kit, but you'd have to mark out the added sq ft of material I would think.

Just now, petawawarace said:

I read that they repurposed the mechanical fuel pump for an oil pump?  But then added the electric fuel pump?  Not sure how true that is? Plus they did claim an oil accumulator.  

 

Huh? that is in interesting thought really, very creative.  But there was no claim for an oil cooler for the trans or diff.  I would have thought if they did that it would be to run the oil to the cooler for one of those two items. unless they use the heater core lol

Link to post
Share on other sites

Some rules of note here:

"9.5.2. Each car entered must have a minimum of SIXTY PERCENT (60%) of the total ORIGINAL body work and panels on the car."

"9.5.4. Body panels significantly supported or held solely in-place by fabricated tubular, sheet metal and/or other forms of fabricated framework or brackets shall be charged for the materials associated with this structure. Body panels must maintain their original placement, shape and profile without the aid of other supporting brackets, rods, tubes or frames."

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, 67Mustang said:

Yeah, not sure how I feel about the compete wide body kit, but you'd have to mark out the added sq ft of material I would think.

 

i meant the rear spoiler.  that only came on a special edition 78 PaceCar Corvette (along with different front aero)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...