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GBU points for next time


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3 minutes ago, enginerd said:

Here we do not see eye to eye...

 

What contributed to the success of the car and winning by X laps (we can say X=12 based on your post)?

 

1) huge budget given to long time IMSA car builder / IMSA team runner / 24 hr of LeMans winner / etc. etc.  I think highly of my fellow champs but if we think our cars are prepped to the level that he has with this car, we are probably mistaken (did anyone else see the mention of a suspension shaker rig on Facebook??) This will be (A)

2) use of several sets of rival-s tires (totally legal) that gave them an advantage over other teams. This is (B) 

3) Average driver skill. Perhaps better than the other top Champ teams, perhaps worse? Impossible to quantify. This is (C)

4) lastly, unclaimed or improperly claimed / valued items that should have resulted in laps. This is (D)

 

In a somewhat handwaving sense, what you wrote is D = 12 laps. Or put into words, his entire margin of victory should be washed away in a VPI adjustment because that would make things fair.

I think it should be something more like A + B + C + D = 12 where D only accounts for some of the margin, and A B C should not be overlooked.

 

Also don’t forget that some of the mods could be removed without much of affect on their performance and are probably just on there because “why not, we have spare points”. Facebook was full of antagonistic posts saying “you didn’t get creamed because of some frame stiffening” and “they could remove that part and it wouldn’t do anything to slow them down”.

 

 

Like most D class cars reliability usually strikes before lack of speed does. A part may not add speed, but it can add reliability. The GBU Vette had a lot of reliability issues before Indy. The alternator was what took them out of the VIR race I think. They fixed that issue for Indy in what appears to be a not legal (or not accounted for points-wise) way.

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New class structure based on the rule year: 1. Class A: "the $500 car" class. 2013 rule book 2. Class B: "last of the Condren cars" class. 2015 rule book 3. Class C : "Pre-Riley era" cl

Here we do not see eye to eye...   What contributed to the success of the car and winning by X laps (we can say X=12 based on your post)?   1) huge budget given to long time IMSA c

I went from OE parts that came on the car to non OE parts that came on a different car, and took the points for it.  It shouldn't matter if there is a performance or reliability gain, non stock compon

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42 minutes ago, enginerd said:

 


Basically, you can’t move the VPI on this car so much that it would become impossible for a ‘normal top tier team’ to campaign one.

For what it's worth, I agree with your comments however I would argue that the current witch hunt is attempting to do exactly what you state cannot be allowed to happen.  

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47 minutes ago, enginerd said:

Basically, you can’t move the VPI on this car so much that it would become impossible for a ‘normal top tier team’ to campaign one.

To reiterate my earlier posts...it should not be the goal to move the VPI so the car can't be campaigned. 

It should be able to be raced. But not with 350 points to spare while the car holds 24 gallons of fuel with a V8, manual, etc.. 

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34 minutes ago, XelderX said:

They fixed that issue for Indy in what appears to be a not legal (or not accounted for points-wise) way.

Like the IRS, alternators suddenly became free with free materials for brackets just for this car. 

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52 minutes ago, 67Mustang said:

 I would argue that the current witch hunt is attempting to do exactly what you state cannot be allowed to happen.  

 

I don't think so.

 

Look at all the threads this has generated.

 

None of them standing alone can prevent the car from obliterating everything if it doesn't break.  But each item together could result in a car that is on a more level playing field with the rest of us.  Nate hit the nail on the head.  Add points for the things that were missed, then consider a tire rule that would reel in their overall speed a bit, then tack on a small VPI increase because the VPI is flat out too low.

 

With Brakes being basically free, the C3 starts more than 350 point down from my car, and it has more power, and more fuel.  The only thing it lacks is decent suspension, but with 350 points to play with, that shouldn't be an issue.

 

A 50 point VPI increase along with adding up the points that were missed, Indy's Saturday race would have been much closer.

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32 minutes ago, SonsOfIrony said:

 

A 50 point VPI increase along with adding up the points that were missed, Indy's Saturday race would have been much closer.

 

the car should have gone direct to EC due to not even being a factory body.  

 

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11 minutes ago, MoparBoyy said:

 

the car should have gone direct to EC due to not even being a factory body.  

 

Isn't an entire car body worth about the same amount of points as a mustang hood?  Seems legit to me.

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3 hours ago, enginerd said:

Here we do not see eye to eye...

 

What contributed to the success of the car and winning by X laps (we can say X=12 based on your post)?

 

1) huge budget given to long time IMSA car builder / IMSA team runner / 24 hr of LeMans winner / etc. etc.  I think highly of my fellow champs but if we think our cars are prepped to the level that he has with this car, we are probably mistaken (did anyone else see the mention of a suspension shaker rig on Facebook??) This will be (A)

2) use of several sets of rival-s tires (totally legal) that gave them an advantage over other teams. This is (B) 

3) Average driver skill. Perhaps better than the other top Champ teams, perhaps worse? Impossible to quantify. This is (C)

4) lastly, unclaimed or improperly claimed / valued items that should have resulted in laps. This is (D)

 

In a somewhat handwaving sense, what you wrote is D = 12 laps. Or put into words, his entire margin of victory should be washed away in a VPI adjustment because that would make things fair.

I think it should be something more like A + B + C + D = 12 where D only accounts for some of the margin, and A B C should not be overlooked.

 

Also don’t forget that some of the mods could be removed without much of affect on their performance and are probably just on there because “why not, we have spare points”. Facebook was full of antagonistic posts saying “you didn’t get creamed because of some frame stiffening” and “they could remove that part and it wouldn’t do anything to slow them down”.


Basically, you can’t move the VPI on this car so much that it would become impossible for a ‘normal top tier team’ to campaign one.

1. Shouldn't matter if the rules are working. A = 0

2. Open to everyone else, and the general consensus on here when SOA used a bunch of them one weekend seemed to be that VPI and tires were two separate items. B = 0

3. I have two national series level drivers on my team and I'm usually within a second or two of their times. Most top tier teams have a good talent pool so I'd mostly call that a wash as well. C = 0

4. This is the issue at hand (waving or otherwise). If the rules are working and as fair as everyone claims, adding up the points that were missed or questionable should close the gap considerably. D = 12?

 

By your own more or less admission (hand waving ;) ), the first three of your points should be moot as they apply equally to all teams. But for the sake of discussion (and I feel it's a discussion that will be beneficial), how much weight would you place on each of those?

 

If parts can be removed without affecting performance because they are being used as point placeholders, I take that to mean that the VPI is too low. If memory serves, the C3 went from 500 points to 150 at about the same time a 4 cylinder Fiero with 10 gallons of fuel went from 175 to 150 points. Not even close in performance yet the exact same Vehicle Performance Index. A stock C3 would probably lap a stock '84 Fiero 12 times every hour. :)

 

As stated by several teams here, building the car to the level shown isn't as much a problem as selling it the weekend after the WhackaMole hammer hits it squarely on the head. If the hammer doesn't fall, I'm sure there are a good half dozen teams that would look at renting out a matching car to potential customers as a good business opportunity. If I were closer (and younger), I would likely be one of them.

 

 

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12 hours ago, Justin9 said:

Maybe I could register my car as a vintage car circa 2018 maybe...  

 

New class structure based on the rule year:

1. Class A: "the $500 car" class. 2013 rule book

2. Class B: "last of the Condren cars" class. 2015 rule book

3. Class C : "Pre-Riley era" class. 2018 rule book

4. Class D : " C3+ era". 2020 rule book (a bit mangled but...)

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Look on the pictures Bill posted in the post race laps and pictures. Most of the pictures are of GBU passing others. I looked at the laps and did Indy not have the 5 minute rule for pit stops? I didnt see any long timed laps. Just lap little longer than the last. Seemed strange. I may be reading it wrong as well.

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2 hours ago, 333 Kinkle said:

Look on the pictures Bill posted in the post race laps and pictures. Most of the pictures are of GBU passing others. I looked at the laps and did Indy not have the 5 minute rule for pit stops? I didnt see any long timed laps. Just lap little longer than the last. Seemed strange. I may be reading it wrong as well.

I count 5 stops Saturday and 5 stops Sunday. All 6:30 or higher

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