Aquafi Racing Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 I do not race a miata, we race a bmw but I am building a miata for my granddaughter. Got the car cheap as head gasket was bad. Pulled the motor did rings, main and rod bearings new gaskets everywhere. My problem is the timing belt is way to tight. I even ordered one from Mazda and the same thing. We had to give them the vin number to ensure the part was right. There are no race parts just a standard car. Brand new water pump, idler and tensioner. The belt that was on the car was to tight and not correct. Is there something I'm missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solo_S14 Posted September 17, 2020 Report Share Posted September 17, 2020 The basic steps are: - Get crank and camshaft pulley timing marks aligned and install belt - Rotate 2 turns to re-check marks - Rotate 1-5/6 turns to a different mark on the oil pump (I believe) which is where you position things to tension the belt - Torque the tensioner to spec - Rotate the remaining 2-1/6 turns to check timing marks a final time Is it possible that you're torqing the tensioner at the "wrong location" which us holding it too tight against the belt? There is some info about 3/4 of the way down this page which calls out some of the details / pictures - might help to just quickly have a read through: https://www.miata.net/garage/timingbelt.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquafi Racing Posted September 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 I certainly appreciate the help. I bought an amazon water pump and I'm wondering if it's not right. The belt is way to tight with no tension from the tensioner. My question is are there different lengths for the timing belts? Thank you again for your help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyKid Posted September 18, 2020 Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 Do you have pictures? I'd need to see it to be of any help. Whats the PN on the belt? What motor is in it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMiskoe Posted September 18, 2020 Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 Something is amiss with the idlers. The belt should be all floppy and loose if it is only on the crank, intake, exhaust and drivers-side idler. Unless something went seriously wrong with the installation of the head, but if you got that far on your own, you're smart enough to get the head bolted down correctly. I'm going to ask a dumb questions, don't be offended - the idler pulley on the passengers side - it slides back and forth w/o effort until you put the belt on? Belt isn't hung up at the bottom where it goes around the cog on the crank? These motors are one of the simpler ones to do a timing belt on, don't over think it, just look at all the options for where the issue could be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquafi Racing Posted September 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 Same issue as this guy, I bought the belt, tensioner and idler from mazda. I did buy a water pump off of amazon and I'm thinking that might be the issue. the locations wouldn't have to be off much to cause an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enginerd Posted September 18, 2020 Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 6 minutes ago, Aquafi Racing said: Same issue as this guy, I bought the belt, tensioner and idler from mazda. I did buy a water pump off of amazon and I'm thinking that might be the issue. the locations wouldn't have to be off much to cause an issue. Pulley diameter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquafi Racing Posted September 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 38 minutes ago, MMiskoe said: Something is amiss with the idlers. The belt should be all floppy and loose if it is only on the crank, intake, exhaust and drivers-side idler. Unless something went seriously wrong with the installation of the head, but if you got that far on your own, you're smart enough to get the head bolted down correctly. I'm going to ask a dumb questions, don't be offended - the idler pulley on the passengers side - it slides back and forth w/o effort until you put the belt on? Belt isn't hung up at the bottom where it goes around the cog on the crank? These motors are one of the simpler ones to do a timing belt on, don't over think it, just look at all the options for where the issue could be. The only variable is the water pump and the locations of the idler and tensioner. I can get the belt on and everything timed right it just feels tight. Might just get another water pump. Thank you for the help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquafi Racing Posted September 18, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2020 4 hours ago, LuckyKid said: Do you have pictures? I'd need to see it to be of any help. Whats the PN on the belt? What motor is in it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMiskoe Posted September 19, 2020 Report Share Posted September 19, 2020 So, safe to say you've run the motor around a few times by hand. It doesn't look like it is at TDC in the picture. Safe to say you did this with both of the idlers loose? Let them settle in and find a home where they are happy. With the idler as it is, in its max-loose position, how much too tight is the belt? I've had them where the idler is closer to one side than the other when everything is right. Wondering if you've got a tolerance stacking going on. Is this a 1.6? The t-stat housing is not 1.8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquafi Racing Posted September 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 On 9/19/2020 at 7:41 AM, MMiskoe said: So, safe to say you've run the motor around a few times by hand. It doesn't look like it is at TDC in the picture. Safe to say you did this with both of the idlers loose? Let them settle in and find a home where they are happy. With the idler as it is, in its max-loose position, how much too tight is the belt? I've had them where the idler is closer to one side than the other when everything is right. Wondering if you've got a tolerance stacking going on. Is this a 1.6? The t-stat housing is not 1.8. yes it was run around by hand. It is tight enough that I can't put the belt on by hand. yes it's a 1.6. Tight enough that the tensioner spring cannot move the belt with everything loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wink Posted September 21, 2020 Report Share Posted September 21, 2020 There should be a mounting point on the intake side of the water pump where the alternator bracket mounts to, I'm not seeing that from the picture you posted. To be fair it's been a few years since I've had a 1.6 in the car, but the orientation of the idler that is spring loaded, looks out of sorts to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-PAP Posted September 22, 2020 Report Share Posted September 22, 2020 My 1.6 is a fight every time to get the timing belt on. We use the Gates blue belt, so I'm not sure if other belts are easier to work with or not. The idler looks ok to me....I'm judging that off mine, which you can kind of see in this picture if you zoom way in on it. You can see the slot on either side of the bolt head and it looks like it's close to the same angle yours is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquafi Racing Posted September 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2020 On 9/22/2020 at 9:49 AM, T-PAP said: My 1.6 is a fight every time to get the timing belt on. We use the Gates blue belt, so I'm not sure if other belts are easier to work with or not. The idler looks ok to me....I'm judging that off mine, which you can kind of see in this picture if you zoom way in on it. You can see the slot on either side of the bolt head and it looks like it's close to the same angle yours is. Thank you, I feel much better about it now. we are finishing up the install Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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