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So, after seeing the Tuttle question on the ole' Facebook that now alternators are free, brackets are free, starters are free, and apparently aluminum expansion tanks are now free and are being written into the BCCR as free items without any BOD discussion is disheartening.  

 

What are the general thoughts into rules or exceptions being added without an actual vote by the membership or BOD?

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Points have been dropping the last few years. People bieoutch about speed, yet points keep dropping. Our POS was a 480 point car in 2016. The new build will be 400 or less w/ way more stuff. It just makes it harder to run the other league because we have to swap stuff off to be under $500

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14 minutes ago, TiredBirds said:

Points have been dropping the last few years. People bieoutch about speed, yet points keep dropping. 

Ya think?  Haha.

 

My car was a 500 or car in 15 or 16.  Since then I have swapped engines, trans, added coilovers, a wing, and a splitter.   Now, it's less than 500 pts...

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11 hours ago, hotchkis23 said:

So, after seeing the Tuttle question on the ole' Facebook that now alternators are free, brackets are free, starters are free, and apparently aluminum expansion tanks are now free and are being written into the BCCR as free items without any BOD discussion is disheartening.  

 

What are the general thoughts into rules or exceptions being added without an actual vote by the membership or BOD?

Yea some good examples of inconsistent interpretations.   

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11 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Ya think?  Haha.

 

My car was a 500 or car in 15 or 16.  Since then I have swapped engines, trans, added coilovers, a wing, and a splitter.   Now, it's less than 500 pts...

yuuuup. even with a new intake and carb we have about 100 to burn. So the question is do we use a 350 and get some fancy heads? Turbo?  Adjustable shocks? Aftermarket Panhard bar? Adjustable strut mounts? (vs the hammer, drill method) 

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2 hours ago, JDChristianson said:

Yea some good examples of inconsistent interpretations.   

I think we are overusing the word “interpretation” and it paints these problems in a better light. 
 

When Bill Strong used an automatic transmission car and swapped the auto out for a manual but still took the -75 point deduction and Phil approved it because of a rule that said “automatic models deduct 75points”, that was total BS, but it was an “interpretation”. 
 

What is happening now where tech gives a point value on a part in January but then changes it later in the year (it seems like that is happening) is not an “interpretation”, it is changing a rule. 

Edited by enginerd
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13 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Ya think?  Haha.

 

My car was a 500 or car in 15 or 16.  Since then I have swapped engines, trans, added coilovers, a wing, and a splitter.   Now, it's less than 500 pts...

We can easily and quickly fix that.  BWAHAHAHAHAHA  just kidding.  

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12 minutes ago, enginerd said:

What is happening now where tech gives a point value on a part in January but then changes it later in the year is not an “interpretation”, it is changing a rule. 

100%. 

And it's ridiculously transparent that it was to benefit a single car. 

IRS, alternators and non-OE brackets and coolant expansion/fast bleed tanks.. all reduced or zero points. 

And this is on the heels of giving that team's previous car similar free stuff, like an engine-trans combo not available OE. And the car only made it to podium once before leaving the series, but it was running a ~$3000 rear axle assembly and only taking points for a differential, so it never got protested for that (axles, hubs, etc.). 

LmPz98.jpg

pjse2q.jpg

 

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Why are you so worried about what the rules are? They aren't enforced. Just build a car however you want and win. If you're protested, you'll get a pass for the day and keep your win. Worst case scenario is you get laps added for the 2nd day, but keep your "win" from Saturday. Since there is no penalty for flouting the rules, might as well just make your own. 

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2 hours ago, c_leffe said:

Why are you so worried about what the rules are? They aren't enforced. Just build a car however you want and win. If you're protested, you'll get a pass for the day and keep your win. Worst case scenario is you get laps added for the 2nd day, but keep your "win" from Saturday. Since there is no penalty for flouting the rules, might as well just make your own. 

 

It only works that way for some.  Just ask the team that got booted off the podium and ECd for the following day at Gingerman.

 

It's not always about what you know, it's who you know that matters.

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1 hour ago, SonsOfIrony said:

 

It only works that way for some.  Just ask the team that got booted off the podium and ECd for the following day at Gingerman.

 

It's not always about what you know, it's who you know that matters.

Uh, they purposely cheated.  They had a verified stroker engine.

 

This team isn't hiding anything and according to tech,  the car is legal.  

 

Those 2 things are a lot different! 

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59 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Uh, they purposely cheated.  They had a verified stroker engine.

 

This team isn't hiding anything and according to tech,  the car is legal.  

 

Those 2 things are a lot different! 

I think that what was being implied was that an out-of-spec stroke test on GBU would not have resulted in a DQ.

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2 hours ago, turbogrill said:

 

There are rumours they will discontinue RE71r, that will make me rich.

 

I think Bridgestone has been working on a new version. All they could tell me was that it should last longer. That was when I spoke to a rep last summer. 

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2 hours ago, turbogrill said:

When are the rules finalized? Need to know what to spend all my money on.

 

There are rumours they will discontinue RE71r, that will make me rich.

They sell very well so I have to assume that a newer, greater, even better tire will come out. My guess a stickier, much faster tire that wears faster and a 200TW rating.

Maybe the RE71R-SCF  (SuperCrazyFast)

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How do they get free alum expansion tanks the Miata NC and E30 do not?

 

I personally do not need one, but I think these should be free. On the Miata NC, if you replace it every race or every other race you will never have an issue. It costs like $200 or something I am told. If you spend less than that on an aluminum one you are good for life. Same result, it just saves teams lots of money. This money can go towards another race entry and all will be happy then. Sure it can add reliability, but a coolant tank blowing up and killing and engine. I do not want to see a competitor ever fail like that.

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We will have to see what the rules say.  When we ran the very first east coast Chump race it was a true cheap car, the original Piggy 900 turbo, purchased for less than $300 bucks, added safety stuff and a new fuel pump.  We had a car that was quite competitive and had podium finishes.  For me the non-stop evolution to free parts and more mods is absolutely tragic and has totally changed this from the true low cost endurance racing series it once was.  While family and work issues have significantly impacted us, keeping us from running the 3-5 races a year we did in the early Chump days, the huge car prep swings, associated pace increases forcing people to follow with the mad prep levels to keep up have kept us away too.

 

Our R53 Mini purchased to race earlier this year, came prepped as a track car and has a lot of nice stuff on it but under the current rules we would be over 500 points thanks primarily to the adequate but nothing special coilover/externally adjustable shocks it came with.  Which including the adjustable camber plates supplied with that kit, the total cost of those parts is less than the free race shocks I understand a Miata can run.  The entire points, and allowed mods has gotten out of control IMHO.  I await the 2021 rules to see where things land.  

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11 minutes ago, oddcarnut said:

We will have to see what the rules say.  When we ran the very first east coast Chump race it was a true cheap car, the original Piggy 900 turbo, purchased for less than $300 bucks, added safety stuff and a new fuel pump.  We had a car that was quite competitive and had podium finishes.  For me the non-stop evolution to free parts and more mods is absolutely tragic and has totally changed this from the true low cost endurance racing series it once was.  While family and work issues have significantly impacted us, keeping us from running the 3-5 races a year we did in the early Chump days, the huge car prep swings, associated pace increases forcing people to follow with the mad prep levels to keep up have kept us away too.

 

Our R53 Mini purchased to race earlier this year, came prepped as a track car and has a lot of nice stuff on it but under the current rules we would be over 500 points thanks primarily to the adequate but nothing special coilover/externally adjustable shocks it came with.  Which including the adjustable camber plates supplied with that kit, the total cost of those parts is less than the free race shocks I understand a Miata can run.  The entire points, and allowed mods has gotten out of control IMHO.  I await the 2021 rules to see where things land.  

 

I guess the issue is that you can buy a $300 coilover and a $3000 coilover. 

You can also run the Miata shock or any other high quality shock, as long as it's under 2x rule.

 

 

1.

Why not throw away the crappy coilovers and install the free miata shock? You probably have to spend a lot of tim fabbing to make a Miata shock fit a mini or pay someone to do it.

 

2.

The camber plates are 5pts if they are homemade, maybe you can copy the existing one or cut them up and weld them together.

 

That should make you under 500pts...

 

We did the same, threw away our entry level coilovers and spend more money making another shock fit. 

 

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11 hours ago, enginerd said:

I think we are overusing the word “interpretation” and it paints these problems in a better light. 
 

When Bill Strong used an automatic transmission car and swapped the auto out for a manual but still took the -75 point deduction and Phil approved it because of a rule that said “automatic models deduct 75points”, that was total BS, but it was an “interpretation”. 
 

What is happening now where tech gives a point value on a part in January but then changes it later in the year (it seems like that is happening) is not an “interpretation”, it is changing a rule. 

Yep, I agree.   

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4 hours ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

How do they get free alum expansion tanks the Miata NC and E30 do not?

 

I personally do not need one, but I think these should be free. On the Miata NC, if you replace it every race or every other race you will never have an issue. It costs like $200 or something I am told. If you spend less than that on an aluminum one you are good for life. Same result, it just saves teams lots of money. This money can go towards another race entry and all will be happy then. Sure it can add reliability, but a coolant tank blowing up and killing and engine. I do not want to see a competitor ever fail like that.

https://www.zip-corvette.com/68-82-c3/cooling-system/corvette-expansion-tank.html

 

68-72 C3 had aluminum expansion tanks.

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