240sx v8 swap

[YoKramer]

So I have a buddy w/ a caged 240sx kicking around his garage, and I have a 302 that I was going to build into a fox but they got expensive. I have looked at the calculator and it just looks like this swap is made completely invalid by the engine swap point calculator if I'm reading it correctly. We would rather get into Champcar than Lemons if possible but were hoping on this combination as we have the most expensive parts out of the way.

So I guess my question is am I reading the 5000pts+ of VPI added due to making ~300hp after the swap correct? And if so is it even worth it to try the swap and Champcar or find a cheap KA to put back in it?

Edited September 24, 2020 by YoKramer

[Team Infiniti]

26 minutes ago, YoKramer said:

So I have a buddy w/ a caged 240sx kicking around his garage, and I have a 302 that I was going to build into a fox but they got expensive. I have looked at the calculator and it just looks like this swap is made completely invalid by the engine swap point calculator if I'm reading it correctly. We would rather get into Champcar than Lemons if possible but were hoping on this combination as we have the most expensive parts out of the way.

So I guess my question is am I reading the 5000pts+ of VPI added due to making ~300hp after the swap correct? And if so is it even worth it to try the swap and Champcar or find a cheap KA to put back in it?

You will not be competitive with the KA

Find/use  a 5.0L variant with 100-110hp less and your in.

No I have not run the numbers, but the series delibrately is trying to keep out high HP lightweight combos. See team(s) car of NLS and  Not Banned Yet, they both have fit a 190ish hp nissan VQ into their 240 and are pretty damn fast.

Edited September 24, 2020 by Team Infiniti

[enginerd]

31 minutes ago, YoKramer said:

So I have a buddy w/ a caged 240sx kicking around his garage, and I have a 302 that I was going to build into a fox but they got expensive. I have looked at the calculator and it just looks like this swap is made completely invalid by the engine swap point calculator if I'm reading it correctly. We would rather get into Champcar than Lemons if possible but were hoping on this combination as we have the most expensive parts out of the way.

So I guess my question is am I reading the 5000pts+ of VPI added due to making ~300hp after the swap correct? And if so is it even worth it to try the swap and Champcar or find a cheap KA to put back in it?

For a little background, a v8 swapped 240sx was one of the main forces which drove the current swap rules. The rule was made to effectively ban that combination because it was too good.

 

Also, it’s not about the actual power of the new engine, rated power (of the car that the engine came from) is what matters. Find a good engine with lower rated power and swap that. 

Edited September 24, 2020 by enginerd

[karman1970]

Correct.  The calculator lets you swap in up to 14.5 lbs/hp for 50 points, and then increases exponentially from there.  You would have a power to weight ratio quite a bit less than 10:1, which is significant.  I don't know much about Nissan's, but others on here do.  I would imagine an old 3.0 V6 (VG30E?) or maybe even an Ecotec would make a decent swap engine.

[TiredBirds]

26 minutes ago, YoKramer said:

So I have a buddy w/ a caged 240sx kicking around his garage, and I have a 302 that I was going to build into a fox but they got expensive. I have looked at the calculator and it just looks like this swap is made completely invalid by the engine swap point calculator if I'm reading it correctly. We would rather get into Champcar than Lemons if possible but were hoping on this combination as we have the most expensive parts out of the way.

So I guess my question is am I reading the 5000pts+ of VPI added due to making ~300hp after the swap correct? And if so is it even worth it to try the swap and Champcar or find a cheap KA to put back in it?

You add the STOCK hp numbers not actual. Try that. Not many stock 302's made 300, more like 190. 

[TiredBirds]

34 minutes ago, YoKramer said:

So I have a buddy w/ a caged 240sx kicking around his garage, and I have a 302 that I was going to build into a fox but they got expensive. I have looked at the calculator and it just looks like this swap is made completely invalid by the engine swap point calculator if I'm reading it correctly. We would rather get into Champcar than Lemons if possible but were hoping on this combination as we have the most expensive parts out of the way.

So I guess my question is am I reading the 5000pts+ of VPI added due to making ~300hp after the swap correct? And if so is it even worth it to try the swap and Champcar or find a cheap KA to put back in it?

you are fine... here:

Make: Nissan
Model: 240SX
Year: 1991
VPi: 350
Car Weight: 2583
Original HP: 155
New HP: 190
Points Added to VPi: 56
--->NEW VPI: 406

[YoKramer]

1 minute ago, TiredBirds said:

you are fine... here:

Make: Nissan
Model: 240SX
Year: 1991
VPi: 350
Car Weight: 2583
Original HP: 155
New HP: 190
Points Added to VPi: 56
--->NEW VPI: 406

Ok so anything that Ive already done to the old 302 would get added on after the fact with other points modifiers? Like the heads/cam and such? Cause if so that just made our lives a whole lot easier. Cause even at the 205 max stock hp of a 302 youre looking at 100pts

Edited September 24, 2020 by YoKramer

[Snorman]

1 minute ago, YoKramer said:

Ok so anything that Ive already done to the old 302 would get added on after the fact with other points modifiers? Like the heads/cam and such? Cause if so that just made our lives a whole lot easier.

Correct. If it's a 190 hp V8, it's 406 points. You then take points for anything not stock on that V8. Heads alone would put you over 500 points. 

[TiredBirds]

Just now, YoKramer said:

Ok so anything that Ive already done to the old 302 would get added on after the fact with other points modifiers? Like the heads/cam and such? Cause if so that just made our lives a whole lot easier.

yes you will still have to add for the cam, intake headers...whatnot.  The HP is based on the make/model the 302 came out of.  Heads are going to push you over 500 I'd think. They are 100. FWIW points are WAY lower now than they were a few years ago.  Honestly if you don't care about winning, just build it and show up...Champ or Lemons. 

[YoKramer]

Ok that makes everything that much easier! Thanks for the help guys. With a rough calculation I think we are around 744pts as everything sits and if we go with an alum rad.

Thanks for the help!!

[YoKramer]

2 minutes ago, TiredBirds said:

yes you will still have to add for the cam, intake headers...whatnot.  The HP is based on the make/model the 302 came out of.  Heads are going to push you over 500 I'd think. They are 100. FWIW points are WAY lower now than they were a few years ago.  Honestly if you don't care about winning, just build it and show up...Champ or Lemons. 

Yea winning or being competitive isnt our immediate goal just making sure we are building a car that will make it to track and not handicap us too harshly. We hope to make the Feb Road Atlanta race next year for sure and if we can get this thing cobbled together maybe even the VIR race this year if possible.

[Team Infiniti]

7 minutes ago, YoKramer said:

Ok that makes everything that much easier! Thanks for the help guys. With a rough calculation I think we are around 744pts as everything sits and if we go with an alum rad.

Thanks for the help!!

Rad is "free" next year, I have a 84ish tbird driveline(could be lots older, Im going by the belt setup) If you were to look at some of the terrible smog years Im sure you could come up with a lower hp version to swap in THEN modify... OR stock 97 explorer @ 215? hp complete and you are fuel infected right out of the gate.

 

[Snorman]

12 minutes ago, YoKramer said:

Ok that makes everything that much easier! Thanks for the help guys. With a rough calculation I think we are around 744pts as everything sits and if we go with an alum rad.

Thanks for the help!!

You're doing it the right way. 

Plan your build carefully so you don't get surprised mid-build or in Tech. Closely read the BCCR and pay attention to the fixed value parts list. 

[YoKramer]

29 minutes ago, Snorman said:

You're doing it the right way. 

Plan your build carefully so you don't get surprised mid-build or in Tech. Closely read the BCCR and pay attention to the fixed value parts list. 

Yea Ive been taking my time reading over the rules. Still shaky on the suspension stuff like how do you score a coil over lol but Ill get it with time.

 

32 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

Rad is "free" next year, I have a 84ish tbird driveline(could be lots older, Im going by the belt setup) If you were to look at some of the terrible smog years Im sure you could come up with a lower hp version to swap in THEN modify... OR stock 97 explorer @ 215? hp complete and you are fuel infected right out of the gate.

 

 

Yea the 302 I have is out of a Thunderbird so Im sure I could claim 190hp or less easy, but plan for the worst.

Edited September 24, 2020 by YoKramer

[Wink]

1 hour ago, YoKramer said:

Ok that makes everything that much easier! Thanks for the help guys. With a rough calculation I think we are around 744pts as everything sits and if we go with an alum rad.

Thanks for the help!!

Mounts come with the engine swap, theres 20 less

[YoKramer]

1 minute ago, Wink said:

Mounts come with the engine swap, theres 20 less

Even if you go with an aftermarket swap kit?

[Wink]

2 minutes ago, YoKramer said:

Even if you go with an aftermarket swap kit?

4.5.3. Engine swaps include stock long block, OE stock exhaust manifolds, stock induction system, motor mounts, starter, ECU, wiring, and transmission adapters

[YoKramer]

5 minutes ago, Wink said:

4.5.3. Engine swaps include stock long block, OE stock exhaust manifolds, stock induction system, motor mounts, starter, ECU, wiring, and transmission adapters

 

BEAUTIFUL!!!

Seriously you guys are the best. Past experience in these type things replies are 10 days late and consist of "Read the rule book better" Seriously appreciate everything!!!

[enginerd]

13 minutes ago, YoKramer said:

Even if you go with an aftermarket swap kit?

The mounts you use for the new engine do not add points, but the dollar value of those mounts must be added in with the costs of the engine and other parts to complete the swap. That total cost can’t exceed $2500.

Edited September 24, 2020 by enginerd

[wvumtnbkr]

Driveshaft comes with trans swap according to my last teching....

 

That's 10 fewer points.

 

Coilovers (meaning the height adjustment and spring ONLY) are 10 pts per corner.  If the damper has adjustability for the rebound or compression, it gets astronomical in the points.

[Snorman]

1 hour ago, YoKramer said:

 

BEAUTIFUL!!!

Seriously you guys are the best. Past experience in these type things replies are 10 days late and consist of "Read the rule book better" Seriously appreciate everything!!!

Also note that the 2021 BCCR release is imminent. There are changes to the 2x rule parts as well as a number of other items that will be relevant. 

[Chris Huggins]

7 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Driveshaft comes with trans swap according to my last teching....

 

 Lol what?

[Ian]

1 hour ago, Huggy said:

 Lol what?

 

I'm guessing if you put an RX7 gearbox in a Camaro, you're allowed to weld the right yoke onto whichever shaft fits for free.

 

If you show up with a DSS carbon driveshaft, I'd hope you pay points.

[wvumtnbkr]

10 hours ago, Huggy said:

 Lol what?

Right?

 

Yep, I had it claimed.  Tech told me it came with the trans swap.  I argued that it should not.

 

They did not put it in my log book.

[wvumtnbkr]

9 hours ago, SonsOfIrony said:

 

I'm guessing if you put an RX7 gearbox in a Camaro, you're allowed to weld the right yoke onto whichever shaft fits for free.

 

If you show up with a DSS carbon driveshaft, I'd hope you pay points.

Camaro gearbox in an rx7.  

 

Totally different shaft.  Rx7 driveshaft are not "really" able to be taken apart.