Exhaust manifolds

[Bremsen]

There was some brief talk about the interpretation of the rules regarding exhaust manifolds.  I see they're included without penalty on swapped engines.  The FPL, only lists "exhaust headers" as 25 pts. 

 

Is there a points penalty for using an OE cast-iron exhaust manifold from the exact same engine (no displacement difference), just from a different vehicle?  I would like to reroute my exhaust, but I'm unsure how this would be interpreted and the BCCR doesn't offer any real answers on the subject.  I know there was chatter about some GM guys using "wrong" manifolds so I was curious if I missed an interpretation somewhere.

Edited October 19, 2020 by Bremsen

[mender]

One Riley build ago, they used Ram's Horn exhaust manifolds on a 3rd Gen F-body and were assessed 2 points for them.

 

I didn't see a reference to that in the new rules but I'm not looking all that hard at them these days, waiting a month or so for revisions 2 through 5.  

Edited October 19, 2020 by mender

[Grufton]

Best to submit to the tech desk.  The BMW E46 gets the E36 manifold for free (easy removal of cats), so there is precedent for this.

[TiredBirds]

When I hear manifold I think about old school cast iron logs, and think...why on earth would it matter?  But today's manifolds can just about be headers. I would guess it would depend on any performance gain.  Is there a drastic difference? 

[Bremsen]

3 hours ago, TiredBirds said:

When I hear manifold I think about old school cast iron logs, and think...why on earth would it matter?  Is there a drastic difference? 

 

Nissan routed the pass side exhaust over the bellhousing and into the dr side manifold.  This was done for turbocharging purposes, but left on/adapted to the NA car.  The x-over pipe/flex joint is prone to failure, NLA (we're on our last good spare) and ran right next to the brake and clutch hard lines, so I'm not a fan of the setup.  It certainly doesn't help exhaust flow, either.  Installing the pathfinder manifolds (provided they clear on the Z) would theoretically allow me to remove the x-over pipe and route the exhaust out of both sides of the engine.  I'm not aware of anyone doing it before because it doesn't make sense to anyone but me (Champcar rules), so no idea of actual performance gain.  I would only consider for zero (or very minimum points) as even headers don't provide a significant increase in HP over the stock manifolds on our engine (not going to gain a ton on an 80s 160hp, 9:1, SOHC V6).

[TiredBirds]

26 minutes ago, Bremsen said:

 

Nissan routed the pass side exhaust over the bellhousing and into the dr side manifold.  This was done for turbocharging purposes, but left on/adapted to the NA car.  The x-over pipe/flex joint is prone to failure, NLA (we're on our last good spare) and ran right next to the brake and clutch hard lines, so I'm not a fan of the setup.  It certainly doesn't help exhaust flow, either.  Installing the pathfinder manifolds (provided they clear on the Z) would theoretically allow me to remove the x-over pipe and route the exhaust out of both sides of the engine.  I'm not aware of anyone doing it before because it doesn't make sense to anyone but me (Champcar rules), so no idea of actual performance gain.  I would only consider for zero (or very minimum points) as even headers don't provide a significant increase in HP over the stock manifolds on our engine (not going to gain a ton on an 80s 160hp, 9:1, SOHC V6).

I'd probably run headers just for the ease of it. Much easier to work with....if the Pathfinder mani's don't work.  

 

[MR2 Biohazard]

On 10/19/2020 at 8:27 AM, Bremsen said:

There was some brief talk about the interpretation of the rules regarding exhaust manifolds.  I see they're included without penalty on swapped engines.  The FPL, only lists "exhaust headers" as 25 pts. 

 

Is there a points penalty for using an OE cast-iron exhaust manifold from the exact same engine (no displacement difference), just from a different vehicle?  I would like to reroute my exhaust, but I'm unsure how this would be interpreted and the BCCR doesn't offer any real answers on the subject.  I know there was chatter about some GM guys using "wrong" manifolds so I was curious if I missed an interpretation somewhere.

My understanding is that any manifold from a car on vpi is zero points. The 25 point rule comes into play 1-1-2021 and add 25 if it is not on the vpi table. I now will add the 25 to my swap, which basically pushes my old car into the 4 penalty lap territory from 1 we have. We have decided to just make it EC now if we even run it anymore.

[wvumtnbkr]

11 minutes ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

My understanding is that any manifold from a car on vpi is zero points. The 25 point rule comes into play 1-1-2021 and add 25 if it is not on the vpi table. I now will add the 25 to my swap, which basically pushes my old car into the 4 penalty lap territory from 1 we have. We have decided to just make it EC now if we even run it anymore.

I'm confused...  don't you get a free header with your swap?  

 

Now I see...  I didn't read carefully enough.

 

Stock manifolds OR manifolds from the vpi list are free.  Others are 25 pts.

Edited October 21, 2020 by wvumtnbkr

[MR2 Biohazard]

1 minute ago, wvumtnbkr said:

I'm confused...  don't you get a free header with your swap?  

Not anymore. We have for the past 5+ years, but that changes 1-1-2021 and we have to pay 25 points for them.

[wvumtnbkr]

Just now, MR2 Biohazard said:

Not anymore. We have for the past 5+ years, but that changes 1-1-2021 and we have to pay 25 points for them.

Yeah, I just went and looked at the rules again.

 

I'm kind of surprised by this ruling....

[TimS]

It’s my understanding you can cut the existing OE tubular type manifolds after the individual runners collect together. I thought this came up in the E46 discussion. Cutting the cat off where the individual runners come together. Can you do this on your manifold?  I thought the Nissan ones where not cast iron but tubular with a heat shield. Then route the exhaust how you want it 

[Bremsen]

On 10/21/2020 at 2:25 PM, MR2 Biohazard said:

My understanding is that any manifold from a car on vpi is zero points.

 

This was along the lines of what I had in my head as the current rule definition around exhaust manifolds.  Was hoping the '21 rules would provide clarity.

 

@TimS No, they're definitely regular old cast iron on the VG engines.  Not sure what came on the later VQs.

[TimS]

Sorry the VG30DE I swapped into my RX7 a hundred years ago had a tubular type manifold. You should be able to use that manifold since it’s in some car on the vpi I’m sure. 
https://www.ebay.com/i/114150627526?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=114150627526&targetid=935065067947&device=m&mktype=pla&googleloc=1021048&poi=&campaignid=10829254704&mkgroupid=106351039613&rlsatarget=pla-935065067947&abcId=9300396&merchantid=6296724&gclid=CjwKCAjw_sn8BRBrEiwAnUGJDqhccT-VzEc_Oarb4wfT1ic904KbiasYuQnEUc-kHU-uGtyyO1qU_BoCJeMQAvD_BwE

Edited October 23, 2020 by TimS