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Tire Discussion


MR2 Biohazard
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7 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

How about a petition that makes more then one tire a 5 minute stop (on top of fuel 5 min)

 

I did multiple tire petitions this year and none go approved. I did restrict certain tires, laps for certain tires, if you change a tire you get X amount of time penalty, only one tire change at a time. I tried, but failed.

All denied.

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1 minute ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

I did multiple tire petitions this year and none go approved. I did restrict certain tires, laps for certain tires, if you change a tire you get X amount of time penalty, only one tire change at a time. I tried, but failed.

All denied.

I think some of those would help the series, so unfortunate they were denied.

 

Thanks for at least trying.

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1 minute ago, Team Infiniti said:

I would like to collaborate, my ideas+your tweaks+ your petition writing skills

heck yah.

 

I actually keep a running petition idea notes on my phone for the next year and tweak as I go. I see things at the track and as I talk to people and see issues and add them.  I have 15 so far. hehe. 

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29 minutes ago, the5 said:

limiting the tire width to 285 would do a bit, as anything 295+ is usually $400 a tire or $1600 a set 

No

Limiting the tires that get changed covers every car.

 

Want the high wear sticky tires gone? Make them cost time to install.

 

I know this is a uphill push, all racers want easy advantage, its like asking a hard drug addict if drugs should carry no prison time.

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1 hour ago, Team Infiniti said:

No

Limiting the tires that get changed covers every car.

 

Want the high wear sticky tires gone? Make them cost time to install.

 

I know this is a uphill push, all racers want easy advantage, its like asking a hard drug addict if drugs should carry no prison time.

I think a lot of teams can run the RE71R for 7-8 hours without changing them and then another set the next day while a good portion of the teams run RS4's for two weekends on one set, or 3-4 weekends on Viscerals car. The cost difference on my car was $2000 more per race weekend and we do not have to change a tire all weekend. That does not fully solve the problem.

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52 minutes ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

I think a lot of teams can run the RE71R for 7-8 hours without changing them and then another set the next day while a good portion of the teams run RS4's for two weekends on one set, or 3-4 weekends on Viscerals car. The cost difference on my car was $2000 more per race weekend and we do not have to change a tire all weekend. That does not fully solve the problem.

What if there were a rule that you had to be with in a certain percentage of stock tire width? 110%?  Just spitballing. For us we’d be maxed at 225 because our car came with 205’s. We run 255 currently. The caveat is that newer cars run much wider tires stock. So the impact across the field isn’t exactly equal. Maybe we need a power+weight+tread width formula to help factor VPI.

Edited by Kentite
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13 hours ago, Kentite said:

What if there were a rule that you had to be with in a certain percentage of stock tire width? 110%?  Just spitballing. For us we’d be maxed at 225 because our car came with 205’s. We run 255 currently. The caveat is that newer cars run much wider tires stock. So the impact across the field isn’t exactly equal. Maybe we need a power+weight+tread width formula to help factor VPI.

An example for me is stock is 225, so I could go to 235. I have run 235 and the tires would be good for 1-2 races. I went to 255 and that went to 3 races for a set if I want. The speed was the same though, just wear went up.

 

I do think the real issue is the tire type and width combination on cost. Tires that wear out in 6-8 hours are 2-4 seconds a lap faster.

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18 minutes ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

An example for me is stock is 225, so I could go to 235. I have run 235 and the tires would be good for 1-2 races. I went to 255 and that went to 3 races for a set if I want. The speed was the same though, just wear went up.

 

I do think the real issue is the tire type and width combination on cost. Tires that wear out in 6-8 hours are 2-4 seconds a lap faster.

Again, this would be a no go for basically all old cars.  Use the early gen Mustang for an example.  195/75-14 as stock... yet you can put 245's and larger under there.  Other cars that may have used tiny 13" rims and 155 or 165 tires as well.  This is a situation where modern car designs start with much larger rubber to begin with.

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19 minutes ago, 67Mustang said:

Again, this would be a no go for basically all old cars.  Use the early gen Mustang for an example.  195/75-14 as stock... yet you can put 245's and larger under there.  Other cars that may have used tiny 13" rims and 155 or 165 tires as well.  This is a situation where modern car designs start with much larger rubber to begin with.

right, this would be a problem with our 1990 Audi, which I believe came with 185's on 14" wheels.  

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34 minutes ago, QuaTTro said:

right, this would be a problem with our 1990 Audi, which I believe came with 185's on 14" wheels.  

 

Or an Opel GT that came with 165/13 tires. It would really really help brake pads last longer though (let's just not go down this path).

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20 hours ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

I did multiple tire petitions this year and none go approved. I did restrict certain tires, laps for certain tires, if you change a tire you get X amount of time penalty, only one tire change at a time. I tried, but failed.

All denied.

I too offered a petition to reign in tire changes/use - as with Troy - all denied.

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3 hours ago, craig71188 said:

I too offered a petition to reign in tire changes/use - as with Troy - all denied.

I supported it.  So did Tyler.  We were alone.  

Edited by Jer
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14 minutes ago, E. Tyler Pedersen said:

I also wrote a tire petition last year. Maybe Craig, Troy and I should get together and write another one for next year.

Or maybe the BOD can accept a tire petition and reign in the tire costs.  How many tire petitions need to be submitted to the BOD to get a single one approved and for how many years? 10 ? 20 ? 100? Petitions. How many times do we need to try to put a tire petition through to actually get a change made?  The members are asking for it and you all represent the members as a hole and need to think long term about the members and organization.

 

I would also like to see a specific list of what board of directors voted what way on each petition. I think that would be eye opening on who wants want and why. We see Jer say he wanted a tire rule put forth and was voted down. We see you saying you put one forth also and was denied.  It then looks like you two want to control costs and speed creep with tires.  To me that means most of the rest of the BOD said no to tire rules and I really want to know why and what is going on with the thought process. Maybe I am not privy to such information as your reasons do not need to be made public, but I as a member would like to know why decisions are made and not left in the dark as to why.

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27 minutes ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

Or maybe the BOD can accept a tire petition and reign in the tire costs.  How many tire petitions need to be submitted to the BOD to get a single one approved and for how many years? 10 ? 20 ? 100? Petitions. How many times do we need to try to put a tire petition through to actually get a change made?  The members are asking for it and you all represent the members as a hole and need to think long term about the members and organization.

 

I would also like to see a specific list of what board of directors voted what way on each petition. I think that would be eye opening on who wants want and why. We see Jer say he wanted a tire rule put forth and was voted down. We see you saying you put one forth also and was denied.  It then looks like you two want to control costs and speed creep with tires.  To me that means most of the rest of the BOD said no to tire rules and I really want to know why and what is going on with the thought process. Maybe I am not privy to such information as your reasons do not need to be made public, but I as a member would like to know why decisions are made and not left in the dark as to why.

It was shot down, IIRC, because there was a fear of writing rules for specific brands/models of tires.  It could turn into a whack a mole deal which is not good.  I personally like some or a lot of the proposals, all of which were shot down.  Have to go back to the paddock to change more than one tire, or minimum stops increased for tires changes.  Or a limit to how many can be used in a weekend.  Or ...?

 

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1 minute ago, Jer said:

It was shot down, IIRC, because there was a fear of writing rules for specific brands/models of tires.  It could turn into a whack a mole deal which is not good.  I personally like some or a lot of the proposals, all of which were shot down.  Have to go back to the paddock to change more than one tire, or minimum stops increased for tires changes.  Or a limit to how many can be used in a weekend.  Or ...?

 

Every person who races knows that certain tires are 2-4 seconds a lap quicker and last a single day at best, a lot of times less. This has a cost of $2000+ per weekend extra for teams in most cases.  We know the tires, we know the brands and we know what it does. We need to have some rules for it. No rule is perfect, but measures need to be taken and put in place. Sitting back, making excuses as to why a rule is not prefect and therefore not good is not acceptable in my eyes. I know you want to put rules forth to keep costs down from our conversations and are shot down.

 

Most members want this change and we should find a way to keep cost down and racing competitive. Simple as that. You have options. XYZ tires get laps or limit tire size max or limit changing tires, ect. You all have had petitions put forth on what to do and all have been denied. That I find unacceptable. I know a vocal few use the cheater tires and want to keep their advantage as they can afford it. If most of the members can not afford them. Why do we keep listening to the ones with the money that are vocal. I am vocal, but want cost effective methods put forth and all my tire petitions are denied. Why don't we hand GBU the trophy and win before they even enter the race as we know they will spend $5000 on tires alone a weekend and no one else can do it.

 

A call out to GBU.  Put on some 275 RS4 tires and show me what you have and see if you can win with those tires. I will show up with some RS4 tires also and lets battle. Best man win the same tires wins. A heads up battle would be wanted. I can not compete with your tires, but I think we can if you had the same tires and that battle could be epic.

 

You could use TAC for what it is. Have them investigate tires and performance and what can be done. This has been done in NASA so they know the performance and use factors for it.  Maybe they can come up with a few rules that would control costs and speeds to these tires.

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12 minutes ago, Jer said:

Or ...?

How about

 

More then one tire needs changed? 5 min just like fuel, but stacked on the fuel timer if done during a fuel stop. 

Doing this should negate any gains from running fast wearing, lap time dropping tires without hurting those scrimping trying to get the most of their old tires nor targeting any particular brand or size. (tire scrimping is not generally done by top, high budget teams, they sell their scuffs anyway)

 

 

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9 minutes ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

I know a vocal few use the cheater tires and want to keep their advantage as they can afford it.

Repeated for truth!

 

There are many who will fight, kick and scream to keep tires unregulated but will use any logic possible rather then speak the truth        i.e.  *Anyone who can afford it can buy 2+ seconds per lap for 0 points*

Edited by Team Infiniti
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