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Hello All,

A lot of you know me already from racing with Champcar since the beginning, over 11 years ago. We have gone through a lot of changes and growth together and having that perspective I would like to serve on the Board of Directors. My personal bio is below.  I am excited to to be able to give back to the members and help the organization continue in the future. I know I will be one voice of 7 and having different perspectives is

 

Here is what I would like to see in the future for changes and keep the focus

  • Encourage Reliability. I know this goes against the norm of what the board says and what others say with no more free items, but I think we could encourage reliability to encourage teams to finish and come back. This free item will save teams money long term with less issues.  We are the only series that punishes reliability with points. We also limit some teams to come to Chamcpar and cross over with some of the rules and we should address those.  We should have accusumps, oil coolers, trans coolers, coolant reserves all for free to have teams use them and finish races.  A team that does not blow up will come back to the next year. A team that does blow up will leave a sour taste in their mouth and may not come back. I think this is a big change that will be for the better long term.

  • Tire Wars- Address tire spending and teams ability to buy a win with tires. Proposals of how and when to changes tires seems to be a logical step and changing multiple sets a day should not be expected.  There is no perfect rule put forth yet, but I am confident with the TAC, Tech, BOD and the members input we can come up with a rule that is fair and in the best interest of the series long term.

  • Mentor program - I would like to run a mentor program for new teams to be set up for success. I have had this idea for a while and this would be a great time to do it. We all know how hard it is for a new team and drivers to start out with little or no direction. I want to design and come up with a program to team up new teams and drivers with an experienced and approved ones. A detailed program with different aspects to focus on,  discount to get new teams first time with us and a way to help them understand what we are all about. A rookie award for each race to a team that is less than a year old and has 75% members or more new.

  • Talking and work together - I do not like the word transparency because it is used over and over again with no affect over the years, but it is what we need. What I would like to see is the TAC, Tech and BOD to work together on rules enforcement. No more lone rangers out there making up rules on the spot on their own. We need to all be on the same page and getting different answers from different people is not healthy long term. The TechBoard is a separate rule book hidden on the Champcar website that takes forever to figure things out and most do not read it.  We need to revamp this to make it more transparent to all.

  • Rules Stability - We need to keep the rules stable long term. You should not have to adjust or change your car or build from year to year. We need to think long term on rules and adjustments for all members.

 

Here are some highlights about me, and the book continues.

  • 120+ Champcar races, some wins, lots of losses, some DNF, but a lot of amazing memories of great times with friends and battles on track.

  • Bachelors and Masters Degree from George Mason University

  • I have served on a board of directors in the past on a non profit community organization for biking and hiking. We had to work with the public and city/county officials and this has given me the experience on how to handle difficult situations and working with many different personalities to come to a consensus for solutions.

  • Married almost 20 years, 2 kids who come to races and love it. You have got to get them hooked early. If they race they will never have time to get in other trouble.

  • Same job for 23+ years and I plan on retiring soon and will have time to really dedicate for other activities, such as Champcar.

 

 

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So lets just say a team has 150 points to use, they do so and bring a car to the track and are 3 seconds a lap faster than the field at Road Atlanta and VIR South. They blow their engine at both event

Hello All, A lot of you know me already from racing with Champcar since the beginning, over 11 years ago. We have gone through a lot of changes and growth together and having that perspective I

Good point. TAC has brought this up and would like to spend more time on it, rather than being bogged down with 113 petitions to go through this past year. (I'm seriously thinking about submitting a p

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Hello Troy,

 

Not sure we've ever talked directly, but I do have a question or two for you:

 

  • When high-profile racing incidents occur, such as the one I was involved in earlier this year at Daytona, do you feel it's in the best interest of the club for those decisions to be disseminated to the club as a whole, or kept private?
  • Do you think going to a spec-tire, or spec-tires type of rule would help minimize your described tire problem?  For example, listing specifically allowed tires and sizes as the best/stickiest that is allowed, such as Ventus RS-4, Azenis RT-615ks, etc in a max width of 275mm?  Or something less restrictive, such as saying 'tires free, except for these models here'?
  • How do you propose balancing VPI based on free reliability items, as supposedly the starting VPI of cars is based on both their performance while running mixed with their likelihood of blowing apart?

Thanks!

Kris

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26 minutes ago, krispykritter said:

Hello Troy,

 

Not sure we've ever talked directly, but I do have a question or two for you:

 

  • When high-profile racing incidents occur, such as the one I was involved in earlier this year at Daytona, do you feel it's in the best interest of the club for those decisions to be disseminated to the club as a whole, or kept private?
  • Do you think going to a spec-tire, or spec-tires type of rule would help minimize your described tire problem?  For example, listing specifically allowed tires and sizes as the best/stickiest that is allowed, such as Ventus RS-4, Azenis RT-615ks, etc in a max width of 275mm?  Or something less restrictive, such as saying 'tires free, except for these models here'?
  • How do you propose balancing VPI based on free reliability items, as supposedly the starting VPI of cars is based on both their performance while running mixed with their likelihood of blowing apart?

Thanks!

Kris

Kris,

Good questions

  • I do think when high profile incidents occur it can be tricky and it depends on the incident, but I do think Champcar needs to investigate and determine the correct course of action to be taken and then make it public as to the situation and the actions taken. I would want to have cool heads and make sure all perspectives are taken into consideration before a rash decision is made. I do think it has be to made public the decisions and the reason why though.
  • I do not think a spec tire is the answer and talking to people at Lucky Dog who have one it has not worked out. Basically the tire cost for most is higher and then high dollar teams have just spent that money on straight line speed increase now. On the tire situation I think we have two main types of tires now. The sticky fast that last a day if lucky and the old school that are good and last two races, but are 2-3 seconds a lap slower. Basically RE71R type vs RS4 type. I do see some teams spending thousands each race weekend on tires and a good portion of teams spending fractions of that. I do not want Champcar to have the perception that to do well you need to spend on tires and I worry that we might go there. Teams like GBU showing up with $5000 worth of tires to burn for the weekend is not what the budget series should be about.  I do like the option of having faster tires and some cars can utilize and need that to compete. I have seen a lot of opinions and options on what to do, but no perfect answer yet. I do think we should organize all the options and work with TAC, Tech, BOD and the members and come to a solution that can be best for all. I had some ideas that I thought were good and when I got feedback from members they brought up perspectives I had not considered so it adjusted my thinking. I think it will be hard though as with new tires that come out it can be seen as Whack a Mole reactions. I think we need to think long term on what we want to be in the coming years when it comes to tires. We can find common ground and listening to members feedback will be key. I would ask what do you think, but a PM might better or we can start a new topic in the thread on that instead of hijacking a thread here. Good question though and I think it is something we are all wondering about on mutliple levels.
  • VPI balance. I think there are two types of reliability items. One is a basic design flow in a car and the other is performance escalation. Here are the examples. A car today is designed to go to around .8g of force for up to 2-3 seconds. Almost all cars will not even see .5G with normal drivers. The oil pick is designed for this. When we take them and put 1.2-1.4G for 2-5 seconds the oil pick is not designed for this and the oil will go in places it was not designed or not drain. Oil starvation and the engine blows up. This I see as a design flow and adding more oil might solve it, modifying the oil pan might or an accusump. All of these mods, in almost all cars, will not add performance, but does get the engine from blowing up. If you add an accusump you actually add like 10-20lbs and will be slower. The other is if reliability is needed for performance. If you add a nice slipper LSD to rear diff and take the 25 points, but then that heats up the diff fluid and will fail over time so you need a diff cooler and pump I do not think that should be zero points because it allows you to use a performance part to increase your speed for zero points. I think there is a balance of what should be consider reliability to finish a race and reliability to add performance. The real question is how to do write the rules to be able to help one and not give away the other. I think there needs to be a balance.
  • On the VPI amounts I do not think the reliability has been in consideration when making the number, just from what I have seen. I have not seen a VPI go way down because that car has blown up X amount of times.  It was based off the AIV and then to VPI and then adjusted when VPI and swap went into effect. I think a more unbiased approach can be brought in.  I work for insurance now and I look at other companies filings to see how they rate and what they do. I then have to build models to figure out their rating models. What I do is use what are called factors. Example- base rate of $100, if you have a 16 year old kid driving you get a 1.5 factor, take the $100 x 1.5 and rate is $150. That is very simplified, but the basic concept. I was doing it one day and thought, how could I apply this to the VPI table. 3-4 hours later in my self induced rabbit hole I came up with a system that I think is really good. I did share it with a member of the TAC and also sent it to MikeC for his opinion so they can use it when new cars come up. I think it is an unbiased way to evaluate to get a VPI. I did take into account about 8 car variables (hp, weight, fuel capacity, drive train type, age, brakes, LSD, Rear end type) and then a bunch of math behind the scenes. Each variable go from like .8 to 1.2 and it all multiplies out. Almost no car is perfect so you give and take to get to the VPI.   We could always add or take away factors if needed in the future also.  For reliability my thought was year of the car as the newer cars are inherently more reliable on average and built better. The VPI numbers I have seen are pretty close to what we have. The weight factor is a hard one as I just went with Edmunds and took 200lbs off, but some cars can be much much lighter on average than what it says. We will have to use some common sense on that.  I could share it to others if anyone is interested and then it can spark ideas or tweaks to make it something we could use long term.
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1 hour ago, E. Tyler Pedersen said:

Hey Troy,

 

Here are my questions:

 

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  • I think petitions are a great way to address possible future rules, fix rules, fix wording and making needed adjustments from a members perspective. As a member who has put forth about 75 petitions and I thankful my suggestions are heard, usually not approved though.  I do think TAC and Tech should review them first to get their perspectives.  The people are on the TAC and Tech because of their knowledge base and were picked because of that.  We should utilize those skills for sure. They can see possible problems with an idea and make adjustments before it is presented. They can also say that a rule might sound good, but in reality XYZ will happen. They are there for their knowledge and should be valued for that.
  • As a team owner for the past 10+ years and on a strict budget now due to job changes the cost of racing is always a concern. One of the best says to cut costs is to keep track of costs and know what each thing cost to evaluate what is best long term for the team. For me I look at a few items when I do race cost. Car build cost, entry fee, yearly maintenance items, per race maintenance items, gas for the tow vehicle, gas for the race car, tires,brake pads and lodging(I sleep in my trailer to save). I lot of these costs have stayed similar, but some have gone up. Thankfully the race fees have only gone up a little and more is included, plus I pay 2 months ahead to save $200 there. Brake pads have gone down for me now that I switched to Wilwoods as there is more pad material and they last longer (the pads are basically the same cost even if you have 2x the pad volume), gas is nice and cheap now so that makes me happy. The item that has me worried is the tires though. I use RS4 tires for two races and with the new tires that are fast and grippy, but only last a day the tire expense is a big concern. I do not want our series to have the perception that you need to spend $2000 a weekend on tires to do well. I think we really need to address this and find a solution that will be good for all, but that is going to be difficult. I do think if we all work together we can find a solution though and that will be a process of staying clam and taking into consideration a lot of different perspectives.
  • Personally I think the BOD is open to communicating with members, when it happens, but we can put more structure into it for sure so all members have the perception of being able to be heard and that their opinions count. I think we can have a more open approach to the BOD. I will personally email all the BOD members when I see an issue, but I am think I am not the norm. I sent one this morning about a possible loophole I see with the dry brake system that could be addressed before we finalize the rule. I have some ideas on how it can be seen as more open. Here are some ideas and if on the BOD I would gladly organize these and I bet others would let someone else do it.
    • Monthly BOD open forum youtube meeting. Go over some pressing current issue, answer questions people have asked and then take open questions from people that are it the comments section. Maybe 30-45 minutes.
    • Monthly or quarterly statement about what has happened behind the scenes so we has members have and insight into what is going on.
    • Have the BOD ask the members their opinions on things to get the members perspective on things.
  • I like the idea of the TechDesk, but to be honest it seems like a separate rulebook and interpretations on items can be all over the place. I see it as not keeping the rules stable and keeping them at a constant movement of what is on there next that we have to deal with. I think that it needs to revamped and us what we have learned from it to come up with a better system. A lot of the questions are really good and will fix the gray areas, but from a members points of view it not an easy accessible item. I sat around tech and saw many members have the rulebook printed out and had no idea what the TechDesk was then they were getting points for things they did not know about not in the rule book. We should not have two rule books.. That I can see is a huge dissatisfaction to the members and needs to be fixed. The idea was in the right place and we can use what we learned from it and come up with a better system.
  • My role on the BOD will be where my skills can be used and are most needed.  I have a strong knowledge for the rules and after all these years I have a good basis for why they are they way they are. I also have good car building knowledge and can relate to members on that level so I can help with the TAC and Tech on that.  I would like to be part of the TAC and help them for rules and interpretations. I would like to head a mentor program and use my past education and experience to help new teams succeed and continue to come back. I think I can be a positive addition to the team and help where needed.
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Troy,

I have some rather pointed questions on some hot button issues from the forums.  While it may not be possible to be too specific (but appreciated if you can/will), I would like to hear your thoughts on the following:

 

Regarding classing, are you more likely to favor the status quo with some adjustments, a move to points based classing, or possibly a two tiered “Open” class and two tiered “limited prep class”?

 

What are your thoughts on addressing “fuel for points” or other fuel rules that would allow more fuel limited models another path to being competitive?

 

What are your thoughts on containing the (potential) tire “arms race”?  Limit or exclude brands, mark/limit tire use per weekend, limits on tire change tools/personnel, other or none?

 

Many have said “no more free stuff” and “we need to address speed creep”, would you be in favor of or consider a full review of points based items to the extent of rolling back some allowances (with enough notification/lead time)?

 

Thank you and congratulations!

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13 minutes ago, craig71188 said:

Troy,

I have some rather pointed questions on some hot button issues from the forums.  While it may not be possible to be too specific (but appreciated if you can/will), I would like to hear your thoughts on the following:

 

Regarding classing, are you more likely to favor the status quo with some adjustments, a move to points based classing, or possibly a two tiered “Open” class and two tiered “limited prep class”?

 

What are your thoughts on addressing “fuel for points” or other fuel rules that would allow more fuel limited models another path to being competitive?

 

What are your thoughts on containing the (potential) tire “arms race”?  Limit or exclude brands, mark/limit tire use per weekend, limits on tire change tools/personnel, other or none?

 

Many have said “no more free stuff” and “we need to address speed creep”, would you be in favor of or consider a full review of points based items to the extent of rolling back some allowances (with enough notification/lead time)?

 

Thank you and congratulations!

Good questions again.

 

Classing- I would like to give classing based on points a chance since our rule book is based on points. I have looked at mutliple races and data when I put it forth to see how it would work. I think it is one of those items that is a big change, but long term I think it will work out. I know some members showed concern over it so we are going to look at more data to get it more concrete on the numbers. I think if we present the data and show results would have panned in races in which we have classes now it elevate some of the concerns.  I think it would be a great way to have a stepping approach to new teams being introduced to CC, now some will pick high value vpi cars, but that is known and no system is perfect. Also, I saw 3 main classes when I looked at the points spreads with some exception rules.

 

Fuel for points- I think it can be done, with defined rules and mainly for smaller tank cars. Example is a car with a very small fuel tank, such as a Honda Fit. It has like 10 gallons and will never do well so they should be able to add fuel. Cars with smaller tanks that can only do like 1:15 stints should have that option to at least be competitive. We we need to do the math and get opinions of members, but I think this could be a good starting point,  cars with less than 16 gallons can use points to go up to 4 above their current tank size, cars with above 20 gallons can only add 2 as they are.

 

Troy

 

Tire options- I think we all need to look long and hard at what we really want with the tire war. Do we want to have the perception that you need to bring 10-12 tires a weekend to race and be competitive? I do not like the idea of banning tires as that will keep on repeating itself long term. I do think we need to address it with a limiting changing tire rule and a few good ones have been put  forth. I also think tires are speed and I do not want the rich teams to simple be able to buy their speed with tires. Champcar is a budget series and the tire cost is the main factor that has gone up over the past few years so it should be addressed. The hard part of this is a lot of teams are so polar in their opinions as some want the fast tires for free points as they can afford it and others can not afford to run them want to keep costs down. This is an issue that I do not think will end with everyone being happy at first, but something needs to be done. I do believe the TAC, BOD and members input we can come up with some rules that will be really good for the organization long term.

 

The term free stuff has been thrown around for years and years and a hot topic. I think a good portion of speed creep is from tires though as in the past few years we have some amazing options now.  What I think we should look at is each items and say, does this item being zero points add to speed creep? Does this item really add to extra costs for teams? Then get feedback from teams that are actually using or planning to use these items to see if our idea of what X and Y are is true or not. We all have opinions on items, but until we really look we might not have all the facts. Example I see. No more 2x rule and now brake calipers 4 piston a free and people say this is adding to speed creep. But does it and are there real examples in which it does? We had to the 2X rule and people had the calipers and brakes they basically wanted anyway. I wonder how many teams have actually seen this rule change and spent money on their car to change it. Also, if they changed to Wilwoods did they do this to add life into the pads? I went to Wilwoods front and rear and can use the same pads front and rear and can use my half used pads in the rear so almost free rear pads now. They are also 2x the pad volume. I can get a lot more life out of my pads and the pads cost more than the calipers. For me in 3 to 4 races the calipers have paid for themselves so long term the rule change has saved me money. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I agree with most of your thoughts here Troy.   One thing that I think you are leaving out of the discussion on free bits is that as things become free that had been using a teams points, they now have more points.  Pretty sure there are cases that freeing up one thing would give a team enough points to add a header or intake or sway bar.   That’s where I think the cost and speed creep come from with making things free.  Do you think FVP or Vpi should go up if things are made free to offset the speed creep?   

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Troy

 

Good platform and I appreciate the thoughtful answers to the questions that have been asked. The series has grown and, frankly, gotten faster. While we are working out strategies to manage it (tires, free parts, VPI etc), we need to discuss some basic requirements for our drivers, too. Rodger brought up the topic of driver experience/education requirements in his platform - I'd like to get your thoughts on this as well.   

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4 hours ago, JDChristianson said:

I agree with most of your thoughts here Troy.   One thing that I think you are leaving out of the discussion on free bits is that as things become free that had been using a teams points, they now have more points.  Pretty sure there are cases that freeing up one thing would give a team enough points to add a header or intake or sway bar.   That’s where I think the cost and speed creep come from with making things free.  Do you think FVP or Vpi should go up if things are made free to offset the speed creep?   

I get your point on free items if those items were points before. I do think most were under the 2x rule and free anyway, so just a different way to look at it. I do wonder how many examples of these are really out there though with free items causing people to free up points? My thought is that it might actually be pretty rare.

 

I do think we can look at the VPI and make some assumptions on free items to adjust if needed. I have a pretty good excel model, stated above, that can do a fair VPI based on the car. It could be something we can all look into doing.

 

For me on speed creep I think we need to look at the route cause of it. Is the same team now going 4-5 seconds faster with the same car? What have they changed in the past few years? I know drivers have improved in the last few years and that is a factor, but other things need to be taken into consideration. Is it speedy parts? Is it tires? Is it drivers? When we talk about speed creep I think we need to do some hard research and say why the cars have increased and have some real data behind it and not just feelings and guesses like we have now. Me for example, we are about 2+ seconds a lap faster now than two years ago, but the car is the same or slower than before. It actually has the same old engine for the last 3+ years, same RS4 tires and even a little more bent up from the AMP accident so it does not turn as well one way than the other as the wheelbase is 1.5" shorter on one side. We were 2-3 seconds faster at Nelson Ledges and I can say it is because we have progressed that much as drivers. What we can do is take 20-30+ teams and compare lap times from this year to 2-3 years ago and then survey the teams to see what has actually changed. I think the findings would be enlightening no matter what direction it leads. That actually sounds fun to do.

 

Me personally I have had to add points over the last year to my car and free items have not helped. I added for an alum flywheel, that I got back now at least. I did have to add for the header not being included in swaps and I get way, it just puts us now at 4 laps back in my old car. We have decided to run it EC if it is needed and then not have to worry about it. It is not like we are making up 4 laps anyway.

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2 hours ago, RocketHamRacing said:

Troy

 

Good platform and I appreciate the thoughtful answers to the questions that have been asked. The series has grown and, frankly, gotten faster. While we are working out strategies to manage it (tires, free parts, VPI etc), we need to discuss some basic requirements for our drivers, too. Rodger brought up the topic of driver experience/education requirements in his platform - I'd like to get your thoughts on this as well.   

I think we can track drivers and educate drivers. I like the idea that you do not need experience to enter and can come race. The driver quality is so much better now than in the past I think we have come to expect it. I know when I drive around I will come up on a guy who is all over and not staying in his line and a danger to both of us. I do not think anyone does it on purpose, it is just lack of knowledge and what is expected.

 

The mentor program I had stated I wanted to do could encompass this into it as driver education and aide. The program can start out fairly simple and expand out to the needs we have. We just need to start somewhere. I think having a mentor to help guide a new team would be a big advantage as that person would to able to give them the inside scoop on what to no do and what to do.

 

I do think we need to have a much more detailed rookie school. I have sat through a few of them in the past and brought up driver awareness and having eyes all over.  Having an hour with the ED talk to you about flags and basic items is nice, but not even close to enough. I think we should have a structured session that is much more detailed about each item. I have done the NASA comp school to get my NASA license and they have some really detailed examples. It is two days with driving, but I think it could be a half a day or less if done right.  I think we can do something like that also and it would help a lot. Maybe have it on Fridays from 2-5pm or something before the race weekend. I would be glad to organize and work with others to design and teach it.

 

The other item is I think we should have a database and keep track of black flags. I would like to do it per driver, and maybe an RFid system could be done as with other series, but technically that is above my paygrade. I think we could keep track of each races black flags in a database and know what team needs help. You could have a format and gather the data each race and then put in an excel pivot table. It would be really easy to manage then. If on the BOD I do not mind doing that and keeping track as I do that type of work on my daily job and it would be easy and fast to do. The event directors can keep notes on teams that get calls in on them that are not black flags but WTF are you doing items and also from other teams that are saying, hey, the driver in X car number Y is really bad. We can talk to them and coach them to be better. Maybe then need to retake the rookie school again when it is new. We have all been there and new and we could have all used more guidance and help to start with. I know I sucked when I started racing and had to learn, the only good thing is the field was much slower back then. I would have liked to have more guidance.

 

 

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1 hour ago, mindspin311 said:

Would you be in favor of re-assessing points values on the FPV list? Some feel that Part A with a value of 50pts may provide less of a performance gain than Part B with a value of 10pts.

I do think we could all look at the points for items and says some are low, some are high, some do not seem to make sense and some are missing altogether. Example would be a wing is the same aero points as a side skirt. I think we all know a wing is much more effective than a side skirt and most side skirts do little unless they are pat of the entire area package of flat bottom and diffuser.  I think some tweaks can happen to be more fair to what points do what in case of speed increase.

 

I do think this can be looked at by TAC, Tech and take members input and us all three to make the right suggestion. Then bring it to the BOD for their say and their input/approval.

 

I would be in favor if it was done a long time ahead and not a change in November for the next year. I would think a good 6-12 month lead time to have people see adjustments first. 

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17 minutes ago, petawawarace said:

What are your thoughts on the instability and changes to the rules?  

Would you consider a 3 year rules freeze? VPI adjustment and safety changes excluded. 

I think the amount of rule changes we see are from the tech desk and adjustments made there. Then we have all the tech desk articles we are supposed to read and go through and hope we catch things as members. Simply put this is terrible and leads to mass confusion even for the ones like us who visit the forum and most members do not. I have been in tech and watched tech tell teams that they need to add points when they have the BCCR printed out and nothing in there. It frustrated the member and tech was made out the to be the bad guy. Why would we be causing such known issues is beyond me. That is the main issue we should deal with first and get it fixed. It might be as simple and pulling the entire tech desk and revamping that system.

 

I do think we should give teams a good amount of time before applying the new rules. My thought would be BCCR official on Sept 1st for the next year and that goes into affect March 1st. This way it gives teams 6 months to adjust.

 

A possible solution could be that petition gets put in, tac and tech review it and recommend X, Y or Z on it to the BOD. They vote it and then put it forth for members feedback, maybe via the forum here before Sept 1st. The member can see the errors in it, such as radiator rule, and then make adjustments prior to Sept 1st. Maybe have a lit of rule changes on Aug 1st. My thinking on timeframe, Petitions due by March 1st, give TAC and TECH 2 months to review, recommend to the BOD May/June time frame. July/Aug 1st rough draft of rules on the forum for member feedback. Sept 1st rules for the next year that start on March 1st. Something like that with more specific process could help a lot.

 

On a 3 year freeze I am not sure on that long and what if adjustments need to be made. I am pondering building a new car and that could really help me a lot if I had a unicorn build, but it might not be best for the series depending on how the rules need to evolve.  I think we would need to look at the pros and cons to having it freeze that long, or even 2 years.  Think about how quickly tires have evolved. What if Hoosier came out and said their new Hoosier slick with one rain groove so it is DOT legal is a 200TW tire, but really an R7. They could call it the S7- Street 7.   It would only last for 2-3 hours and then you have to change all 4, but that tire is 7-8 seconds a lap faster than an RS4. We could be stuck with that tire being fine and legal for 3 years. What about the GBU car? If the rules were frozen their might not be anything we could do, but in your example we could raise the vpi, but that might not really solve the issue there is, such as the IRS being 50 points.  

 

As a BOD member I feel I would represent the members and want their feedback and my opinion on things would not matter as much as they do now. My wants may not be the clubs needs and what the members feel we have to do. I would also be one voice of many and the group would decide so even if I felt one way I would need to look at logic and what is best for CC long term.

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On 11/1/2020 at 2:00 PM, MR2 Biohazard said:

Encourage Reliability. I know this goes against the norm of what the board says and what others say with no more free items, but I think we could encourage reliability to encourage teams to finish and come back. This free item will save teams money long term with less issues.  We are the only series that punishes reliability with points. We also limit some teams to come to Chamcpar and cross over with some of the rules and we should address those.  We should have accusumps, oil coolers, trans coolers, coolant reserves all for free to have teams use them and finish races.  A team that does not blow up will come back to the next year. A team that does blow up will leave a sour taste in their mouth and may not come back. I think this is a big change that will be for the better long term.

This is why I'm voting for Troy. ChampCar has always been about cheap seat time for me, and to run cheaply you need a reliable car. An early breakage doesn't just cost money to fix, but is a waste of a tow, entry fee, hotel rooms, etc. As the rules stand now I think WRL probably offers cheaper running costs.

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14 minutes ago, Grant said:

This is why I'm voting for Troy. ChampCar has always been about cheap seat time for me, and to run cheaply you need a reliable car. An early breakage doesn't just cost money to fix, but is a waste of a tow, entry fee, hotel rooms, etc. As the rules stand now I think WRL probably offers cheaper running costs.

Cheap reliability doesn't exist in racing.  You really think WRL is cheaper than ChampCar.?

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4 minutes ago, DEE DEE said:

Cheap reliability doesn't exist in racing.  You really think WRL is cheaper than ChampCar.?

I don't know what you mean by that. Cost is a function of reliability, among other things.

Yes, depending on class I think a competitive WRL car can be cheaper to run, though many WRL cars are obviously much higher budget than ChampCars. Their series punishes tire changes more, and allows cost-saving modifications like coolers. They also smartly allow brake caliper upgrades (which tend to lower running costs) while penalizing two-piece rotors (which raise them).

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I don't know anything about rental costs for WRL vs. ChampCar, but it's not really on-topic here anyway.

 

My hunch is WRL build costs (for say GP2) are higher than Chump's, but I'm pretty sure running costs are lower.

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I have raced my car in both series and there are certain things I like about WRL, no pit stop time limit and no stint limit, makes for interesting strategies.

 

On the cost the entry fee can be higher, but tire cost would offset that really fast if you feel you need to run the RE71R. They encourage reliability items as they want teams to finish. On that note, all series encourage it accept Champcar because it is so ingrained in peoples minds from back in the lemons days. I just wish we could go away with the mindset of hoping and planning on our competitors failing and hoping to beat them that way. It is really hard to go away from something that has been for so long though.

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I think it's disingenuous to say that everyone who wants coolers and accusumps to remain points hopes and plans on their fellow competitors failing.  It's more the fact that this series is (or was, at some point in the distant past) about racing normal street cars and any change you made beyond what was factory cost you.  Some people feel it still ought to remain that way.  That doesn't mean they WANT their fellow racers to blow up.

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I agree that reliable race cars make for a much more enjoyable time. Even if they are slower the seat time given is much more important than the finishing position. The only complaint I have is knowing what I'm driving doesn't give me much of a chance at being truly competitive in what I thought would be one of the slowest classes in Champ Car. That aside I know I have lots to improve on the car to have the best lap I can do at RA, though I have trouble believing I need to gain 25 seconds a lap, that's what it's looking like to be competitive in A right now. I don't believe a tire size or compound change would be anywhere near that beneficial, though I will be interested in seeing what my Aero mods over the winter will bring. The surge tank should let us get closer to the 2 hour limit but won't change our lap times. The motor is stout but basically stock, bored 040 over with a g grind cam a new speed throttle body, I believe that Aero is hurting us the most as we ran well with everyone out of corners untill 4th gear and 5. Seems that aero improvements will benefit us the most but can't fathom that will gain us anywhere near 25 seconds a lap, I'll be happy to see 10 seconds, but even that won't make it much more competitive in A. My fault for thinking a 36 year old car could compete with much newer vehicles.

 

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