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Valve train points, what is it?


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Speed/HP equals points, do you want a camshaft, fine, X points, if that cam is substantially bigger then stock, you’ll need springs, more points… Speed Creep curtailed in real time, you guys are missing that point.

 

DOHC swap? You hardly could double charge somebody when you’re missing pieces with your “paid for” swap

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39 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

DOHC swap? You hardly could double charge somebody when you’re missing pieces with your “paid for” swap

When they are swapping a high performance head on it comes with high performance cams. VTEC BRO!

 

If I buy assembled heads do I then get the springs, rockers, etc for free? They are most certainly available that way.

 

Nowhere in the rule does it say they get those parts for free but apparently that is how it works.

 

What's good for the goose apparently isn't good for the gander....

Edited by Bandit
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1 minute ago, Bandit said:

When they are swapping a high performance head on it comes with high performance cams. VTEC BRO!

 

Nowhere in the rule does it say they get those parts for free but apparently that is how it works.

 

What's good for the goose apparently isn't good for the gander....

That isn’t how it works. It isn’t allowed. Show me a current car with head swap that goes from single to dohc.

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2 minutes ago, enginerd said:

That isn’t how it works. It isn’t allowed. Show me a current car with head swap that goes from single to dohc.

Who says it has to be OHC to DOHC? 

 

It's been discussed here before and as I recall the consensus was you got whatever was on the head, cams/springs/etc, you were swapping. 

 

If that is in error I will retract my rant. Perhaps tech could weigh in with what they have been instructed on this point.

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12 minutes ago, Bandit said:

Who says it has to be OHC to DOHC? 

 

It's been discussed here before and as I recall the consensus was you got whatever was on the head, cams/springs/etc, you were swapping. 

 

If that is in error I will retract my rant. Perhaps tech could weigh in with what they have been instructed on this point.

That was the consensus by some members for some period of time. You are correct, it could be dohc to dohc VTEC. I know of a Honda build which swapped head and claimed the 100pt head swap to include the valve train & cams in the new head. It was approved by tech and run, but years ago tech changed / changed their minds and it was unapproved and the car was changed. 

 

There was a big disagreement due to stock head and aftermarket differences between domestic v8 and import crowds... v8 crowd thought you just get the casting and keep the internals... such a head swap to a race aluminium head could see big gains with the stock internals. Doesn’t work like that for imports.... the heads aren’t very bad and nobody makes aftermarket heads... if you head swap a Honda it is from a different street car engine and you generally cannot use the stock internals because it won’t fit on the new head. Similar % power gains are seen in each case, but with the change of rule, you won’t ever see a Honda head swap in ChampCar. 

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ok, if I'm stuck paying 50 points for springs, may as well drop 25 on an intake and another 100 on heads...... so 225 points. plus an oil pan plus a distributor... 270 points. still good man...The ram is probably a great 25 pt spend since you can still use the stock exploder throttle body.  Yates heads probably a bit overkill, but hey, if your wasting points on heads, why play games..... Just because you don't see them in CC does not mean there are not some crazy V8 parts  available.....

 

20200225_225944.jpg

yates SBF heads.jpg

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4 minutes ago, enginerd said:

That was the consensus by some members for some period of time. You are correct, it could be dohc to dohc VTEC. I know of a Honda build which swapped head and claimed the 100pt head swap to include the valve train & cams in the new head. It was approved by tech and run, but years ago tech changed / changed their minds and it was unapproved and the car was changed. 

My memory is better than expected in this case if it was several years ago. Good to know that ruling was changed.

 

Rant retracted. 

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12 minutes ago, 67Mustang said:

ok, if I'm stuck paying 50 points for springs, may as well drop 25 on an intake and another 100 on heads...... so 225 points. plus an oil pan plus a distributor... 270 points. still good man...The ram is probably a great 25 pt spend since you can still use the stock exploder throttle body.  Yates heads probably a bit overkill, but hey, if your wasting points on heads, why play games..... Just because you don't see them in CC does not mean there are not some crazy V8 parts  available.....

 

20200225_225944.jpg

yates SBF heads.jpg

 

Go old school. Carbs are flat 25 pts if you have one or eight (ITB's)'

 

spacer.png

 

Might want to dig out a Galaxie if you want to make it more than an hour. hah

 

This is more my taste.

spacer.png

 

 

To add, yes there are some crazy parts available. However the likelihood of a stock bottom end holding up is fairly remote when you start getting crazy.

 

SuperVette's stock shortblock is all forged from the factory so that helps. And even then it had cast manifolds which offset a fair bit of power gained from the heads. And I really doubt that spun it much over 6k which is where big heads are really starting to breathe.

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I'm good with that. 66 Gal 25.1 gal tank.... two door, four door what ever it takes.  Cut a foot out of the wheelbase and narrow it 8 inches....  make it more Falcon sized....  Heck if Mario's ride had a bigger tank, I'd dig that...

7857a2b4d65221325659a91c5b70fb56.jpg

 

The Fairlane just looks filthy as sin...  Shows they got them low even back in the day when they wanted too.

c31ce64e60063ba0b1b30802203366dc.jpg

Edited by 67Mustang
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16 hours ago, 67Mustang said:

ok, if I'm stuck paying 50 points for springs, may as well drop 25 on an intake and another 100 on heads...... so 225 points. plus an oil pan plus a distributor... 270 points. still good man...The ram is probably a great 25 pt spend since you can still use the stock exploder throttle body.  Yates heads probably a bit overkill, but hey, if your wasting points on heads, why play games..... Just because you don't see them in CC does not mean there are not some crazy V8 parts  available.....

 

20200225_225944.jpg

yates SBF heads.jpg

we did, still using stock, but ported heads. But Race Holley 2bbl.... no TPI. eng2.jpg.8931f9d90b322c2585dbeed3d227c0bd.jpg

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56 minutes ago, 67Mustang said:

Cam springs and valve train stock?......

no... but our car starts at 200 points so we have room. We were running a stock intake and carb but since the points keep dropping we added a intake and carb. We still have like 80 points to burn. In 2014 this would have been a 480 point car. 

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Contemplating the Falcon, the Exploder 5.0 swap puts it at 197 pts post swap so basically same as you. but way crappier suspension to start with lol.  Could actually swap a truck 390 in for a few points less since they were only 201 hp... but the exploder  is a direct bolt in for the original 260 and another 100 plus pounds lighter than the 390..  390 would have a huge cool factor though.  If only that got a point reduction for cool factor lol 🤣  I can drastically improve the front suspension for about 50 points, but the leaf spring rear is a problem.  Plus as I sit, It has an 8.8 under it which is fine but it's a point hit and the stock 8" rear would be more than fine for this application.  So I can see a panhard or watts in my future... Trouble is trying figure out the best low point upgrades that are actually low buck like basically free.  The stock GT 40 intake on the exploder is good for 400 plus hp anyway so not likely to get near that on points so no real reason to move to that Holley HiRam EFI either although it is cool as sin...

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6 minutes ago, 67Mustang said:

Contemplating the Falcon, the Exploder 5.0 swap puts it at 197 pts post swap so basically same as you. but way crappier suspension to start with lol.  Could actually swap a truck 390 in for a few points less since they were only 201 hp... but the exploder  is a direct bolt in for the original 260 and another 100 plus pounds lighter than the 390..  390 would have a huge cool factor though.  If only that got a point reduction for cool factor lol 🤣  I can drastically improve the front suspension for about 50 points, but the leaf spring rear is a problem.  Plus as I sit, It has an 8.8 under it which is fine but it's a point hit and the stock 8" rear would be more than fine for this application.  So I can see a panhard or watts in my future... Trouble is trying figure out the best low point upgrades that are actually low buck like basically free.  The stock GT 40 intake on the exploder is good for 400 plus hp anyway so not likely to get near that on points so no real reason to move to that Holley HiRam EFI either although it is cool as sin...

 

You could build a pretty sporty rear suspension for 60 points, 3 link, 10 points per link, panhard 10 points, coilovers 20 points.

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On 2/24/2021 at 11:38 AM, 67Mustang said:

Contemplating the Falcon, the Exploder 5.0 swap puts it at 197 pts post swap so basically same as you. but way crappier suspension to start with lol.  Could actually swap a truck 390 in for a few points less since they were only 201 hp... 

Thats because the truck 390 is a boat anchor. you need the FE car 390. but there goes the swap value

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36 minutes ago, SCUDERIACACALACKY said:

Thats because the truck 390 is a boat anchor. you need the FE car 390. but there goes the swap value

Yeah, the 390 could be interesting.  The Exploder motor is the one that makes the most sense,  decent heads and intake and a solid bottom end to start with. Plus I have it bolted to the engine stand.  Like Ron White used to say, "I don't know how many people it would take to throw me out the window, but I did know how many they were going to use! and that is a valuable piece if information!"  I have the 5.0 and know its swap value and capability.  Much worse starting points could be had.  If I had the earlier Tbird 5.0 rated at 200 hp, would use that and take a lower swap hit... It is what is though.

 

On 2/24/2021 at 11:47 AM, mhr650 said:

 

You could build a pretty sporty rear suspension for 60 points, 3 link, 10 points per link, panhard 10 points, coilovers 20 points.

Could go Nastycar truck arms lol and save 10 points....

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