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Surge tanks and stock gas tanks....


bjaspud
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Been thinking about this myself.  My car went about an hour and twenty minutes before sputtering, sputtered for 5 more laps or so, and we still had 3 gallons left at the pit stop 🤦‍♂️ Would love to see pictures and more info on people's setups!

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1 minute ago, Max said:

Been thinking about this myself.  My car went about an hour and twenty minutes before sputtering, sputtered for 5 more laps or so, and we still had 3 gallons left at the pit stop 🤦‍♂️ Would love to see pictures and more info on people's setups!

 

Our 626 runs the stock tank with a baby little 1 quart surge tank.  same basic setup as it would be with a cell.

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17 minutes ago, Max said:

Been thinking about this myself.  My car went about an hour and twenty minutes before sputtering, sputtered for 5 more laps or so, and we still had 3 gallons left at the pit stop 🤦‍♂️ Would love to see pictures and more info on people's setups!

It’s not other people set up you need to see, The real question is what’s going on in the bottom of your gas tank?

 

We went to a different style fuel pump inside the tank, we cut a donor tank open to make sure we were getting it right where it needed to be before installing

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55 minutes ago, MoparBoyy said:

 

Our 626 runs the stock tank with a baby little 1 quart surge tank.  same basic setup as it would be with a cell.

Thanks! I probably need to do the same. 

 

33 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

It’s not other people set up you need to see, The real question is what’s going on in the bottom of your gas tank?

 

We went to a different style fuel pump inside the tank, we cut a donor tank open to make sure we were getting it right where it needed to be before installing

Gas tank just seems wide open with a cup that the fuel pump assembly sits in. 

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Here's the fuel pump assembly. 

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when i built the e30 i went the route of moving the lift pump out of the oem tank, adding another lift pump for redundancy, both feeding the surge tank. the HP fuel pump is in the surge tank, with ability to add another HP pump if desired for fail-over. there are pictures of the setup somewhere in forum from last year timeframe.

 

gained a little bit of oem tank volume (not a ton but every little bit helps). net-net do a surge tank *for sure*.

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4 hours ago, Max said:

Been thinking about this myself.  My car went about an hour and twenty minutes before sputtering, sputtered for 5 more laps or so, and we still had 3 gallons left at the pit stop 🤦‍♂️ Would love to see pictures and more info on people's setups!

 

I have a Radium 2.0liter surge tank, nice quality and the same lift pump as ATX30 (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crt-p4594)

Also running a hydramat.

 

The surgetank has a level sensor so when you are about 80% left in the surge tank a light goes on, then you have 1-2 laps left depending on track. For us that is just at the 1:50-1:55 mark.

 

Since there is a hydramat in the tank there is 0% fuel left in the fuel tank.

 

edit:
Fuel cell gives you more fuel ofcourse but costly to do nice on the NC miata unless you are a fabricator.

 

Edited by turbogrill
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On 11/5/2020 at 7:39 PM, turbogrill said:

 

I have a Radium 2.0liter surge tank, nice quality and the same lift pump as ATX30 (https://www.summitracing.com/parts/crt-p4594)

Also running a hydramat.

 

The surgetank has a level sensor so when you are about 80% left in the surge tank a light goes on, then you have 1-2 laps left depending on track. For us that is just at the 1:50-1:55 mark.

 

Since there is a hydramat in the tank there is 0% fuel left in the fuel tank.

 

edit:
Fuel cell gives you more fuel ofcourse but costly to do nice on the NC miata unless you are a fabricator.

 

Are you happy with the Radium? I’m about to order one.

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This is a previous version of my surge tank/OE Fuel tank setup. In-tank pump to Surge tank, then through a filter to High Pressure pump to rail. The brass item on top of the surge tank is a motorcycle fuel sender gauge (mounted upside down) that has 2 thermisters so there is a redundant low fuel light. 

 

 

 

image.jpeg

Edited by revvhappy
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53 minutes ago, mender said:

I also made a surge tank that uses the stock cartridge but modded the fuel level sensor to be a switch that triggers at 80% full.  Standard GM EFI pump so cheap and plentiful when replacing.

Yeah I’ve gotta come up with a fuel level sensor of some sort.  I also have to change my surge to more capacity. I built it to hold a 1/2 gallon without the pump assembly in there. I’m missing out on some capacity as it displaces quite a bit.  I also found out the hard way that a 15gal fuel cell doesn’t actually hold 15gal.  

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12 hours ago, petawawarace said:

Yeah I’ve gotta come up with a fuel level sensor of some sort.  I also have to change my surge to more capacity. I built it to hold a 1/2 gallon without the pump assembly in there. I’m missing out on some capacity as it displaces quite a bit.  I also found out the hard way that a 15gal fuel cell doesn’t actually hold 15gal.  

I tried a bunch of tricks to get my 15 gallon cell up to 15 gallons but the best I could do is get about 13.6 gallons usable with the one gallon displacement block that I was required to use. That 13.6 was with a 3" filler hose, filled about 15" up the 36" hose (the max length allowed at the time).

 

By the rules I should have been allowed 13.9 gallons (11.9 gallons stock) plus whatever I could put in the hose or about a gallon, plus the surge tank of 1/2 gallon for 15.4 gallons total. That's why I was more than willing to do a pump-out to prove capacity, I would have had 1.8 more gallons.

 

As I've said a few times, tech can determine what the rule really allows.

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2 hours ago, mender said:

I tried a bunch of tricks to get my 15 gallon cell up to 15 gallons but the best I could do is get about 13.6 gallons usable with the one gallon displacement block that I was required to use. That 13.6 was with a 3" filler hose, filled about 15" up the 36" hose (the max length allowed at the time).

 

By the rules I should have been allowed 13.9 gallons (11.9 gallons stock) plus whatever I could put in the hose or about a gallon, plus the surge tank of 1/2 gallon for 15.4 gallons total. That's why I was more than willing to do a pump-out to prove capacity, I would have had 1.8 more gallons.

 

As I've said a few times, tech can determine what the rule really allows.

Yeah, stock tank was 13G for me. Most I can get in the 15Gal cell was 14 1/4. I'm going to the hydra mat with baffles, and making the surge tank bigger.  

Ive also got a bit of an issue with filling the last bit in the cell. It fills superfast, but when it gets right to the top, it bubbles air and allows more fuel in if you shake the car or let it sit.  I believe its something to do with the check-valve on the vent. I may try to move the check valve up the line a bit.

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3 hours ago, mender said:

I tried a bunch of tricks to get my 15 gallon cell up to 15 gallons but the best I could do is get about 13.6 gallons usable with the one gallon displacement block that I was required to use. That 13.6 was with a 3" filler hose, filled about 15" up the 36" hose (the max length allowed at the time).

 

By the rules I should have been allowed 13.9 gallons (11.9 gallons stock) plus whatever I could put in the hose or about a gallon, plus the surge tank of 1/2 gallon for 15.4 gallons total. That's why I was more than willing to do a pump-out to prove capacity, I would have had 1.8 more gallons.

 

As I've said a few times, tech can determine what the rule really allows.

 

So your fuel cell is 14 gallons? And even with that mega filler hose you couldn't get more than 13.4?

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23 minutes ago, EngEtan said:

Is this a normal thing for fuel cells... to not fit the advertised capacity?

I have heard this is common. And sometimes they hold more than the advertised capacity. My ATL cell is such an example, were you to open it you’d question why there are so many displacement blocks, and it’s because it held too much fuel with the “right” number of blocks!

Edited by enginerd
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6 hours ago, turbogrill said:

 

So your fuel cell is 14 gallons? And even with that mega filler hose you couldn't get more than 13.4?

Yes. Foam, internal pickup, plastic case, and I put my vent hose a bit too low so could only fill the main hose about halfway.

 

 The soft bladder cells can be "tricked" into having more volume.

 

Edited by mender
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