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2021 Official - Road America Spring - The National Championship


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  • Technical Advisory Committee
15 hours ago, ABR-Glen said:

I'll suggest using combined laps for the weekend as the first tiebreaker, although there is a reasonable chance that doesn't break a lot of ties it's still logical to look at that before going to prior race results.


Combined laps, or Sundays finish would be OK with me. 

Using "season rank" means this is not a winner take all event, so I don't like that.

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  • Technical Advisory Committee
15 minutes ago, Andrew D Johnson said:


Combined laps, or Sundays finish would be OK with me. 

Using "season rank" means this is not a winner take all event, so I don't like that.


Maybe you guys have an answer to this, but what makes Sunday a better tie breaker than Saturday?  Maybe an alternative proposal would be highest finish of those tied? If somebody had a 2nd and a 2nd and were tied with a team with a 1st and a 3rd maybe the team with the win takes the tie?

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14 minutes ago, Burningham said:


Maybe you guys have an answer to this, but what makes Sunday a better tie breaker than Saturday?  Maybe an alternative proposal would be highest finish of those tied? If somebody had a 2nd and a 2nd and were tied with a team with a 1st and a 3rd maybe the team with the win takes the tie?

Issue with that is that if two teams get 1 / 2 and 2 / 1, they are still tied after your highest finish tiebreak. So we would need another tiebreak after that. As a general point, I think there should be one tie breaker rather than several that go in order of “but if still tied, then this, and if still tied, then this”. I like combined points for the weekend, and then one tiebreaker. 
 

Sunday position tiebreak would probably lead to a more thrilling Sunday finish. In the above example, the team who got 2nd Saturday can decide their fate by taking the Sunday win. 
2nd point, this is endurance racing. Making Sunday the tiebreak emphasizes running strong all the way to 15 hours. 

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  • Technical Advisory Committee
3 minutes ago, enginerd said:

Issue with that is that if two teams get 1 / 2 and 2 / 1, they are still tied after your highest finish tiebreak. So we would need another tiebreak after that. As a general point, I think there should be one tie breaker rather than several that go in order of “but if still tied, then this, and if still tied, then this”. I like combined points for the weekend, and then one tiebreaker. 
 

Sunday position tiebreak would probably lead to a more thrilling Sunday finish. In the above example, the team who got 2nd Saturday can decide their fate by taking the Sunday win. 
2nd point, this is endurance racing. Making Sunday the tiebreak emphasizes running strong all the way to 15 hours. 

 

Could be, but I think Andrew said it best after Rd Atl these races all feel like we are running sprint races to do well, so not sure things will be any different on Sunday than they are on Saturday.  If you have trouble you probably won't be in the mix anyway so whoever is in a tie would have to have run strong both days.  If like usual, catching a caution correctly, etc will determine the deal at the end of the weekend.  

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1 minute ago, Rodger Coan-Burningham said:

 

Could be, but I think Andrew said it best after Rd Atl these races all feel like we are running sprint races to do well...

So what you're saying is on Sunday we just need to go ahead and send it. 

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Perhaps there should be a consideration for the finishing position among the championship contenders. I haven't thought that through, but not a huge fan of the overall finishing position being the default scoring method anyway. Will be a shame if the championship is decided based on how many non-contending cars finish between two contenders. 

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total laps is a bad idea, because as we saw in the fall.  a red flag for a couple hours made one day much shorter.  and both days are currently unequal in length... plus FCYs.. a team can't control those things.

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  • Technical Advisory Committee
15 minutes ago, Snorman said:

So what you're saying is on Sunday we just need to go ahead and send it. 


What I intended to say was we will all be sending it Saturday morning. 

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27 minutes ago, MoparBoyy said:

total laps is a bad idea, because as we saw in the fall.  a red flag for a couple hours made one day much shorter.  and both days are currently unequal in length... plus FCYs.. a team can't control those things.

Red flag affects everyone equally by shortening the race and it would be moot. If you win the shorter or longer of the two races it won’t make a difference.

 

The combined laps turned idea would reward a larger margin of victory... say you win Saturday by 2 laps and lose Sunday but are on the same lap as the winner, you win the ship.

 

I do like this idea because it would incentivize stretching the lead rather than racing to just hold on to it.

 

[edit] total laps turned would of course make it harder for our broadcasting crew to keep tabs on current championship standings.

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48 minutes ago, enginerd said:

Issue with that is that if two teams get 1 / 2 and 2 / 1, they are still tied after your highest finish tiebreak.

One lap shootout with a drag start at the line? 😀

 

Actually, it seems like something like that was done once at Pitt.... Don't recall the particulars.

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  • Technical Advisory Committee
15 minutes ago, enginerd said:

total laps turned would of course make it harder for our broadcasting crew to keep tabs on current championship standings.


If @Doc can’t figure it out I’m sure he could easily make something up.

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19 minutes ago, enginerd said:

Red flag affects everyone equally by shortening the race and it would be moot. If you win the shorter or longer of the two races it won’t make a difference.

 

 

its all moot because this isn't a discussion to have 2 weeks before the race. ;)

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10 minutes ago, Bandit said:

One lap shootout with a drag start at the line? 😀

 

Actually, it seems like something like that was done once at Pitt.... Don't recall the particulars.

Yep, that was done for a sprint race overall win.  It was between the rusty cougar and a camaro.

 

Rusty cougar got the jump and had a good 1 second or so lead when they went out of view into (old) turn 10.  The camaro came out in the lead.

 

The cougar pushed too hard and blew the braking zone.

 

Camaro won it.

 

It was the most glorious thing I have ever seen.  (Although I was rooting for the cougar).

 

We also did qualifying for that race by fast lap on the go kart track on Friday evening.

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  • Technical Advisory Committee
2 hours ago, Rodger Coan-Burningham said:


Maybe you guys have an answer to this, but what makes Sunday a better tie breaker than Saturday?  Maybe an alternative proposal would be highest finish of those tied? If somebody had a 2nd and a 2nd and were tied with a team with a 1st and a 3rd maybe the team with the win takes the tie?

 

This event somehow ended up non Parc Ferme. It is a "single finish event", so to me it makes sense that the finish Sunday is the finale and could hold more value via the tie breaker. 

Most double race weekends have MOV, so the Saturday race to me is worth more but for this event I think Sunday is the race that really counts. 

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  • Technical Advisory Committee
1 hour ago, Bandit said:

One lap shootout with a drag start at the line? 😀

 

Actually, it seems like something like that was done once at Pitt.... Don't recall the particulars.


Camaro vs Cougar IIRC. I have run every Pitt event since like 2016, but this was early than that. Bruce vs the Tigers Wood PGA guys. 

A few years later, the start of the Sunday WGI race was determined by a drag race down pit lane. 

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  • Technical Advisory Committee
3 minutes ago, hotchkis23 said:

Still think it should have been Parc Ferme....would have made this a lot simpler for all involved.


I think Dana knew guys were coming from Mississippi and Alabama and Florida and we wouldn’t know what those big words mean that you snooty Yankee boys use. 

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1 hour ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Yep, that was done for a sprint race overall win.  It was between the rusty cougar and a camaro.

Coug looped it pretty good.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, hotchkis23 said:

Still think it should have been Parc Ferme....would have made this a lot simpler for all involved.

 

i think running it in a warm climate would have also been simpler.. but here we are. LOL  *goes searching thru my closet for a coat*

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3 minutes ago, MoparBoyy said:

 

i think running it in a warm climate would have also been simpler.. but here we are. LOL  *goes searching thru my closet for a coat*

Currently 72 degrees.

 

Will probably snow next week.

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  I raced there in 19 spring race. I have not spent any time in the northern latitudes for more than twenty years with a lot of time in Equatorial Africa. I had nothing for Cheeser land, a excuse me Wisconsin. I watched Nat’s team working and racing in the cold like it was a summer day. I was paralyzed by the cold. Teeth chattering, numb face, feet and fingers aching. It was brutal. 
 

  I had nothing for the cold. My wife packed a few coats and an old fatigue heavy Jacket. None of it was warm enough. Best of luck and be prepared. 
 

 

Edited by Cam Benty
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This was before the new rule change in 16. That car was literally pulled from a field in Pa. field. No PHR. Tq. Arm or good shocks and a Fox platform.  It was not fun to drive, at first. 
 

A quality team and a car from another Era. I miss that car. 
 

22 minutes ago, MoparBoyy said:

 

32 minutes ago, Bandit said:

Coug looped it pretty good.

 

 

 

Edited by Cam Benty
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1 hour ago, Andrew D Johnson said:

 

Most double race weekends have MOV, so the Saturday race to me is worth more but for this event I think Sunday is the race that really counts. 

What makes you think there won't be MOV here? From the driver's meeting it seems like they are intent on running this race like any other except the starting order and who goes to impound. 

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