Tire Poll Question

[MR2 Biohazard]

I have been told I am a small minority wanting to limit tires in different ways and that is why there is not traction to my ideas. I was thinking the idea of tires was a bigger deal, but I could be wrong and made a poll to show me. I might be one of the only ones who wants new tires rules, and if so, then I need to accept the rules as they are and move on.

Edited November 19, 2020 by MR2 Biohazard

[enginerd]

55 minutes ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

I have been told I am a small minority wanting to limit tires in different ways and that is why there is not traction to my ideas. I was thinking the idea of tires was a bigger deal, but I could be wrong and made a poll to show me. I might be one of the only ones who wants new tires rules, and if so, then I need to accept the rules as they are and move on.

Can you add an option like: “needs a change but I don’t agree with any of the above”?

 

Or perhaps just add the option that I think should be added, which is what @Jer said earlier, which is no limits on brand, but do limit total tires per race / race weekend. 

[MR2 Biohazard]

10 minutes ago, enginerd said:

Can you add an option like: “needs a change but I don’t agree with any of the above”?

 

Or perhaps just add the option that I think should be added, which is what @Jer said earlier, which is no limits on brand, but do limit total tires per race / race weekend. 

Do you know how to edit a poll once it has started?

 

got it, epic post, go to the poll tab and add another answer.

Edited November 19, 2020 by MR2 Biohazard

[enginerd]

13 minutes ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

Do you know how to edit a poll once it has started?

 

got it, epic post, go to the poll tab and add another answer.

Ok, why did you go putting specifics on it? I want a limit but I think the limit would have to be discussed after everyone does (or doesn’t) agree on the limit strategy.

 

You say 4 per 7 hour race and I have to vote “no”. You have issues like spins and flat spots... flat tires... unexpected  weird wear... you may have to change a tire while running RS4s for these reasons!

[MR2 Biohazard]

1 minute ago, enginerd said:

Ok, why did you go putting specifics on it? I want a limit but I think the limit would have to be discussed after everyone does (or doesn’t) agree on the limit strategy.

 

You say 4 per 7 hour race and I have to vote “no”. You have issues like spins and flat spots... flat tires... unexpected  weird wear... you may have to change a tire while running RS4s for these reasons!

I did that to give and idea what it could be, basically an example.

 

How should I write to make you happy?

[enginerd]

Just now, MR2 Biohazard said:

I did that to give and idea what it could be, basically an example.

 

How should I write to make you happy?

“No limits on brand, but do limit total tires used per race or per race weekend (actual limit TBD)”

[MR2 Biohazard]

1 minute ago, enginerd said:

“No limits on brand, but do limit total tires used per race or per race weekend (actual limit TBD)”

Done, happy now? You are a hard guy to please.

[enginerd]

3 minutes ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

Done, happy now? You are a hard guy to please.

Very

 

thank you

[55mini]

8 minutes ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

Done, happy now? You are a hard guy to please.

And would you expect him to be any other way??????????? enganeer...........yes it's spelled wrong so Nate can correct it as he needs something to do.

[Bremsen]

Some sort of time penalty (1-2 min per tire?) for changing a tire seems the most reasonable.  Or maybe as simple as a drive through penalty.  If you add pit stop time, it might have to be added to the next stop since adding time during the tire change stop might be hard to manage.  I don't know if we're still using kitchen timers or not (been a few years now).

 

Tires will continue to evolve so I don't think banning specific tires or going to a spec tire is the right move.  But I agree there should be some sort of discouragement for changing tires during a race.  Tires are nearly always the biggest consumable cost to any racing team.

[ben 594]

Tire width beyond "x" should be points....

[MR2 Biohazard]

1 minute ago, Ben 595 said:

Tire width beyond "x" should be points....

For what car? A width of 235 is massive on a CRX, but way under for a Mustang.  The only way to do a width correct is based on car weight, but we do not do that.

 

Maybe, more than 20mm above stock should be X points and then scale it?

[wvumtnbkr]

I think tire width stuff is NOT the way and is actually counter productive.

 

The wider the tire is, it lasts longer.  It does not change average lap time all that much from what I have seen and tested. 

[MR2 Biohazard]

Just now, wvumtnbkr said:

I think tire width stuff is NOT the way and is actually counter productive.

 

The wider the tire is, it lasts longer.  It does not change average lap time all that much from what I have seen and tested. 

I can say the same. We went from 235 to 255 and the same lap times, but we went from 1-2 races per set to 2-4 races per set.

[wvumtnbkr]

I want to make a note of something...

 

I would be in favor of either of the last 2 choices.

 

Either limit amount of tires per weekend, or limit the number of tires you can change per stop to 1.

 

If you need to change 2 tires due to an incident or the tires are unsafe for some other reason (you got your toe out of whack for example) you can do so with no penalty if you can show proof.  

 

If there Is a weather change, go for it!  Change all 4 with no penalty.

 

I think that would pretty much ONLY impact the fast tired teams.  

 

You can still run through your scrub tires.  You can still make sure your tires are safe.  You can still fix the tires after a double flat.  You can still change them for weather.

 

If you are caught changing more than 1 tire and have no excuse, 5 minute stop and go penalty. 

[petawawarace]

8 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

I want to make a note of something...

 

I would be in favor of either of the last 2 choices.

 

Either limit amount of tires per weekend, or limit the number of tires you can change per stop to 1.

 

If you need to change 2 tires due to an incident or the tires are unsafe for some other reason (you got your toe out of whack for example) you can do so with no penalty if you can show proof.  

 

If there Is a weather change, go for it!  Change all 4 with no penalty.

 

I think that would pretty much ONLY impact the fast tired teams.  

 

You can still run through your scrub tires.  You can still make sure your tires are safe.  You can still fix the tires after a double flat.  You can still change them for weather.

 

If you are caught changing more than 1 tire and have no excuse, 5 minute stop and go penalty. 

This is the best solution IMO.  I would add clarification that rotating tires is ok. This should be easy to police with different teams on pit road. 

 

I kind of agree with the weather change, but how would that be worded?  If its just left upto the teams, they could argue that they "thought" it was going to rain so they put on a fresh new set.  Does it need to actually rain to be allowed? What about a 5 minute shower?  

[mindspin311]

No. I think the issue is blown out of proportion.

[MR2 Biohazard]

1 minute ago, mindspin311 said:

No. I think the issue is blown out of proportion.

You might be correct, I guess the poll might answer how the members feel about it though.

[MMiskoe]

Leave it alone.  Recognize that the arms race is well underway and you're unlikely to win on a small budget.  Maybe you could have previously, but that horse is looonnnnggggg out of the barn.  Tires are just part of that budget.

 

The only way it could be changed and have it make sense is to stop and think about what is enforceable. 

 

Who's going to be monitoring how many tires get changed, or what the consideration is for weather, or what constitutes damage significant to merit a change, or what about the team that runs through their old scrubs and cords one earlier than expected?

 

So you could change the TW rating to something higher, push all the current tires aside.

 

You could mandate a minimum sidewall profile of no less than a 70 or higher series which would stop all the current tires from being used because none of the TW180/200 tires come in high profile sizes and if you have a tall sidewall you are no longer going to gain much from lots of suspension tuning.

 

Sorry for being negative, but this is a thread asking for opinions.

[Jab31169]

14 minutes ago, mindspin311 said:

No. I think the issue is blown out of proportion.

 

I'm sad I can only like this once

[Andrew D Johnson]

2 hours ago, enginerd said:

Can you add an option like: “needs a change but I don’t agree with any of the above”?

 

Or perhaps just add the option that I think should be added, which is what @Jer said earlier, which is no limits on brand, but do limit total tires per race / race weekend. 

That's where I'm at. I would be in favor of a change to help reduce my tire budget, but I have not seen a rule proposed that is quality. I have not even seen an outline of a rule that is quality. 

[MR2 Biohazard]

1 minute ago, red0 said:

That's where I'm at. I would be in favor of a change to help reduce my tire budget, but I have not seen a rule proposed that is quality. I have not even seen an outline of a rule that is quality. 

So come up with one. What do you purpose then?

[Andrew D Johnson]

Just now, MR2 Biohazard said:

So come up with one. What do you purpose then?

I'm not proposing anything, I'm not even advocating a change. I am open to a change if it would reduce my tire budget and was a quality rule. 

[wvumtnbkr]

3 minutes ago, red0 said:

That's where I'm at. I would be in favor of a change to help reduce my tire budget, but I have not seen a rule proposed that is quality. I have not even seen an outline of a rule that is quality. 

Can you critique my suggestion above?

 

As far as the specific questions regarding what I proposed above....  leave it up to tech and the race director to make a ruling if it needs to be made.

 

 

I know I watch other people's pit stops.  I would be able to tell how many tires go over the wall.

[Andrew D Johnson]

1 minute ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Can you critique my suggestion above?

 

As far as the specific questions regarding what I proposed above....  leave it up to tech and the race director to make a ruling if it needs to be made.

 

 

I know I watch other people's pit stops.  I would be able to tell how many tires go over the wall.

I would prefer a rule that would make it prohibitive to change tires for weather. Budget racers don't want to spend $$ to have an extra set of wheels and tires in case it rains. 

I don't know if Champcar can handle limiting number of tires over the wall, number of jacks, number of impact guns etc. It is mostly volunteers in pit lane, and it is a limited number of people. When a yellow falls at 1:55 of a race and 100 teams all pit at once........good luck.