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Tire Poll Question


Tire Rule Poll  

69 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think the current tire rules we have are fine or do we need to revamp the rules to limit specific tires by banning or penalty laps for them or a rule to punish teams to change tires during a race?

    • The rules are just fine the way they are.
      23
    • We need to ban certain tires.
      7
    • We should have a penality lap rule for certain tires.
      2
    • We should peanlize changing tire/s during a race.
      19
    • No limits on brand, but do limit total tires used per race or per race weekend (actual limit TBD)
      19


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I will try to grab my plots to show you if you need proof, but there is a real world speed difference.  We've tested Rivals vs. RS4s vs. RE71Rs (two different sizes) with multiple test days (we've spe

I think tire width stuff is NOT the way and is actually counter productive.   The wider the tire is, it lasts longer.  It does not change average lap time all that much from what I have seen

Huggins Tyler Green mustang NVM, they run RS4   

12 minutes ago, red0 said:


Huggins

Tyler

Green mustang


NVM, they run RS4 
 

Pinkies Out run RS4s- so remove us from the list of teams that run the "hot" tire and change tires throughout the race.  For the VIR race coming up in a couple of weeks, we are running the same tires we ran on at the 24 for the entire race.  

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We have won 2 races on RS4's this year.  I think this whole hot tire deal is a potential issue that can get out of hand.  For the long term a rule of some sort needs to be in place.  The short term, Someone (With Balls) from Champcar needs to have a sit down with GBU.  Give them the old Nascar talk.  This is Champcar's sandbox. They don't have to let a team stink up the show. 10 seconds a lap is crazy.  We will not go to the championship race if that car is not slowed down. 

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5 hours ago, enginerd said:

Ok, why did you go putting specifics on it? I want a limit but I think the limit would have to be discussed after everyone does (or doesn’t) agree on the limit strategy.

 

You say 4 per 7 hour race and I have to vote “no”. You have issues like spins and flat spots... flat tires... unexpected  weird wear... you may have to change a tire while running RS4s for these reasons!

 

Flat spots are a loop hole into changing tires. last lap, I am flat spotting all four of my tires so my next driver gets a set of new ones. 

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3 minutes ago, Bill Strong said:

Flat spots are a loop hole into changing tires. last lap, I am flat spotting all four of my tires so my next driver gets a set of new ones. 

I think you’re conflating my post with other posts. What I said was that zero tire changes (4 tires per 7 hour race) is silly because you can have events (flat spot, random puncture) which need a tire change whether running soft tires or durable ones... so a number like 6 per 7 hours may be better because it would allow 2 changes in a race. But I didn’t say anything about a flat spot exemption to the limit. You get 6 tires per race, no exemptions, have at it. 
 

Other people proposed limits with a flat spot exemption. 

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4 minutes ago, enginerd said:

I think you’re conflating my post with other posts. What I said was that zero tire changes (4 tires per 7 hour race) is silly because you can have events (flat spot, random puncture) which need a tire change whether running soft tires or durable ones... so a number like 6 per 7 hours may be better because it would allow 2 changes in a race. But I didn’t say anything about a flat spot exemption to the limit. You get 6 tires per race, no exemptions, have at it. 
 

Other people proposed limits with a flat spot exemption. 

If we have a 6 tire rule per day does that fix the current situation and do any teams change anything from that? The only team I see is Sahlens changing a set per pit stop, but even GBU on Sunday at RA only used 6 tires.

 

That would mean a team would use 12 tires a race weekend. Is that really the expectation we are going to have with tires and teams? Do we want to make that the limit? If the rule is there then the perception will be that is what you should do and expected to do to do well. With that rule I do not see anyone really doing anything different than they do today?

 

I am thinking the limit the number of tires per race and also have a rule that changing tires is a negative. The only issue is people using up half used tires to get all they can out of them. I wonder how we can make one situation OK and the other not. I think we all know a team burning through new tires vs getting full use out of old tiers. How do you make a simple rule for that though?

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30 minutes ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

If we have a 6 tire rule per day does that fix the current situation and do any teams change anything from that? The only team I see is Sahlens changing a set per pit stop, but even GBU on Sunday at RA only used 6 tires.

 

That would mean a team would use 12 tires a race weekend. Is that really the expectation we are going to have with tires and teams? Do we want to make that the limit? If the rule is there then the perception will be that is what you should do and expected to do to do well. With that rule I do not see anyone really doing anything different than they do today?

 

I am thinking the limit the number of tires per race and also have a rule that changing tires is a negative. The only issue is people using up half used tires to get all they can out of them. I wonder how we can make one situation OK and the other not. I think we all know a team burning through new tires vs getting full use out of old tiers. How do you make a simple rule for that though?

For that reason a weekend limit is probably better... let’s say you get 8 tires in a weekend. Flatspot some on day 1 and you aren’t sunk, just need to make sure you picked a durable enough tire to run the rest of day 1 and all of day 2. 
 

Obviously this wouldn’t eliminate the re71, we often use fewer than 8 in a weekend... but it would eliminate the absurd sahlens stops and several racks of GBU tires. I think it’s these absurd cases that should be curbed. 

Edited by enginerd
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1 hour ago, mindspin311 said:

No no no no no.

 

List me teams that are churning through tires every race weekend to take advantage of the speed and are directly winning/placing well because of it.

 

32 minutes ago, Ray Franck said:

  JSK , Saliens , GBU , Ludicrous Speed , are the first that come to mind



Directly winning or placing because of it?!?!? So you don't think these teams could place or win on RS4s? WTF!!!???

JSK has like 10 Road America wins and I have seen then run all sorts of tires. 

Pretty sure GBU could lap the field with no rubber on the wheels at all. Seriously they could win every race by 5 laps on 600TW tires. 

Luda has not run in a long while, but was DOMINANT a few times and could have won on an RS4 had they run it IMO

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2 hours ago, Team Infiniti said:

Crowd control does well on them when rs4 is unavailble from tire rack.

There you go, spewing garbage. We ran A052s at one race this year and you weren't there. Every other race has been on RS4s. 🙄 

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3 minutes ago, Snorman said:

There you go, spewing garbage. We ran A052s at one race this year and you weren't there. Every other race has been on RS4s. 🙄 


I'm thinking the tire with the most wins in 2020 was the RS4? Would be interesting to know. 

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2 minutes ago, red0 said:

 



Directly winning or placing because of it?!?!? So you don't think these teams could place or win on RS4s? WTF!!!???

JSK has like 10 Road America wins and I have seen then run all sorts of tires. 

Pretty sure GBU could lap the field with no rubber on the wheels at all. Seriously they could win every race by 5 laps on 600TW tires. 

Luda has not run in a long while, but was DOMINANT a few times and could have won on an RS4 had they run it IMO

 Just answered the question and I forgot about Tuttle and did not mention others like Premium Dudes. I believe more races have been won on rs4 than any other tire over the last couple of years.  But when I see teams set FTD and cord a new set of tires in 4hrs I take note of it and what tire. Back to the question it was asked and I answered. Could they have won on other tires probably but I just answered as to results I have seen.

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2 hours ago, mindspin311 said:

No no no no no.

 

List me teams that are churning through tires every race weekend to take advantage of the speed and are directly winning/placing well because of it.

 

Also curious about this and I think this need to be quantified before a rule is set in place that could potentially hurt teams.

 

Or did someone do a perfect race but didn't win because they where running RS4 instead of re71r?

 

We run re71r but never win :)

 

The winner in the last two races I did was running RS4.

 

Edited by turbogrill
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Just like the c3 debacle, the re71 and the like are a partially exploded time bomb here.

 

Everyone can deflect/deny or whatever,  but it is ONLY to preserve their lap time advantage and leverage from a better financial position then a budget series should allow.

 

No words can change these facts. Carry on.

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16 hours ago, Lethal Cliff said:

We have won 2 races on RS4's this year.  I think this whole hot tire deal is a potential issue that can get out of hand.  For the long term a rule of some sort needs to be in place.  The short term, Someone (With Balls) from Champcar needs to have a sit down with GBU.  Give them the old Nascar talk.  This is Champcar's sandbox. They don't have to let a team stink up the show. 10 seconds a lap is crazy.  We will not go to the championship race if that car is not slowed down. 

 

Quoting for truth.  Hopefully This happens soon.  Sahlens needs to be invited to this conversation too in my opinion, as they are doing the same thing, just a bit more sneakily.

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14 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Just to reiterate about sahlens....

 

I have not seen them run any fast tire.  I have watched them go through a metric ton of older shaved tires.

 

Has anybody actually seen them run a fast tire?

What were you looking at?

 

They always run fast tires. One was on Stones at Pitt and the other on Yoke's

Edited by shutupracing
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On 11/19/2020 at 4:33 PM, Ray Franck said:

  JSK , Saliens , GBU , Ludicrous Speed , are the first that come to mind

Ray-

I think you need to take JSK off of that list.  Yes - at Nelson we absolutely blew through tires.  But that was an experiment that went horribly wrong, not an intentional strategy. If you look at the races we’ve won, almost all of them involved zero tire changes or one tire towards the end of the race.  Changing tires is never a part of our race plan. 

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