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2021 Champcar E30 Brake Kit - Polling Interest


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Fitment in a 15x7 TRm Wheel requires a 10mm spacer

 

(note this photo shows a 15mm because that’s what I had on hand)

 

BFF630B2-58D8-4F57-8885-940C7734123D.jpeg

 

 

Fitment is not possible with a 15x7 TRM 

Edited by Chris Huggins
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Total FRONT brake consumables cost for 2020, for 1 car:   Races: VIR-S, VIR-F, VIR-N, Barber: Pads = 4 x $200 Rotors = 8 x $32 Total = 1056   Forecasted cost wi

3d printed parts hot off the press.  Looks about as expected, no major issues.  ABS sensor clears no problem, stock bolts all fit, bores and spacings good.  Just waiting on Rotor and Caliper to arrive

Thanks for the link.  Thats pretty cool someone developed an ARP kit for an OEM brake setup.   Wilwood offers an OTS kit to mount the calipers.  The loads are not significant enough that 434

Posted Images

Slightly off-topic: We have seen the same cracking issue with Zimmerman rotors and have not with Centrics. The Centrics had plenty of heat checking but nothing ever got to the edge of the rotor. 

 

On topic: Have you planned on how to fasten the caliper to the bracket? My GT350 (radial mount caliper) uses some crazy custom TTY T60 torx head fastener from the factory. This company found an alternative solution which is similar to what other radial mount BBK manufacturers use. https://caliperfexion.net/

 

I put a set on mine and it makes life exponentially easier, particularly because the caliper has a fixed bridge; obviously that issue wouldn't be present on the Wilwoods - but is worth mentioning. 

Edited by bigusnickus
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On 12/9/2020 at 4:39 PM, bigusnickus said:

Slightly off-topic: We have seen the same cracking issue with Zimmerman rotors and have not with Centrics. The Centrics had plenty of heat checking but nothing ever got to the edge of the rotor. 

 

On topic: Have you planned on how to fasten the caliper to the bracket? My GT350 (radial mount caliper) uses some crazy custom TTY T60 torx head fastener from the factory. This company found an alternative solution which is similar to what other radial mount BBK manufacturers use. https://caliperfexion.net/

 

I put a set on mine and it makes life exponentially easier, particularly because the caliper has a fixed bridge; obviously that issue wouldn't be present on the Wilwoods - but is worth mentioning. 

 

Thanks for the link.  Thats pretty cool someone developed an ARP kit for an OEM brake setup.

 

Wilwood offers an OTS kit to mount the calipers.  The loads are not significant enough that 4340 is needed, and I doubt they are even for that GT350 setup.

Wilwood Radial Bracket Studs 230-13273 = $18 retail

That kit contains Studs, Nuts, and shims for one caliper.

 

Its an unfortunate size (2.5" long) which makes finding the studs challenging, but I found a possible off the shelf stud thats 2.75" that might work - waiting on arrival to determine.  If that stud works, I can get the cost down from $18/corner retail to $6.25/corner retail and if so I will include the studs/nuts in the kit instead of needing to purchase them separately with the remainder of your willwood stuff.

 

 

Getting closer.  Testfit the prototype hat today.  Waiting on the above mentioned studs and nuts, pads, and brake line fittings to see if we need straight or 90's for the best fit.

Test-Hat.jpg

 

 

At this point I am 100% certainly going to be getting this stuff made for me.  I am looking at the end of Q1 2021 as a target date.  Based on lead times I don't want to promise to have these ready for those of you running Road Atlanta or another early race.

 

I'm expecting to be ready to finalize orders and take deposits starting in mid-late January, so if you have serious interest please keep that timing in mind.

Edited by Huggy
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Hi Huggy,

 

Could you share the template you are using to check wheel fitment?  We currently use rx7 calipers on the cheap Corrado rotors you have pictured.  With ducts from behind we have been happy with rotor life, though we are certainly not one the faster teams.  Our setup also requires a 10mm spacer on 16x8 ET20 wheels.  Would love to get rid of the wheel spacer and move to a 2-piece rotor. 

 

Since you are designing both the hat and caliper bracket, I am curious if you considered trying to move the caliper more inboard for less wheel interference. 

 

Also, have you shopped the part through https://www.emachineshop.com/?  You use their little cad tool to design your part and they give you quantity-based pricing right in the app. 

 

 

 

 

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On 12/21/2020 at 9:34 AM, NewbernD said:

Hi Huggy,

 

Could you share the template you are using to check wheel fitment?  We currently use rx7 calipers on the cheap Corrado rotors you have pictured.  With ducts from behind we have been happy with rotor life, though we are certainly not one the faster teams.  Our setup also requires a 10mm spacer on 16x8 ET20 wheels.  Would love to get rid of the wheel spacer and move to a 2-piece rotor. 

 

Since you are designing both the hat and caliper bracket, I am curious if you considered trying to move the caliper more inboard for less wheel interference. 

 

Also, have you shopped the part through https://www.emachineshop.com/?  You use their little cad tool to design your part and they give you quantity-based pricing right in the app. 

 

 

Hello Newbern,

 

The template is attached.  I don't think this kit will fit many 7 or 8" wheels without spacers, but it really depends on spoke design.  Something like a Team Dynamics with really out-set spokes might just clear.

 

TRM C1's in 7" require a spacer for sure (as shown above).  I don't have any 8" but I am hoping to meet up with a local guy who has one to check.

 

Unfortunately I cannot go farther inboard with the rotor due to the tie-rod boot clearance.  Because of the thickness of the rotor compared to stock, this puts the caliper pretty far out.  I HIGHLY suggest making a custom backing plate that has protective shields for the ball joints.  Even with the stock rotor, the tie-rod ball joint boot is prone to melting if no shield is present.

 

I have been using that site and xometry as my "sanity check" for quotes.  However, I would really like to A. Keep this stuff Made in USA and B. Keep this stuff made in the Champcar Network.   Thankfully, I have had a competitive quote come in from one champcar member already, and I have offers from at least 2 more once I am confident in my final design.  I want to make sure everyone gets to quote the same parts and to make sure I dont get myself all mixed up.

IMG-4448 (Small).JPG

Edited by Chris Huggins
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I’m in for a set of brackets and hats. I’m going to print template and check on my set of 9” wheels this weekend. Template is set to print at correct dimensions?  I’ll let you know what it looks like. Let me know when you need the money. Thanks again. 

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Ran into an issue with fitment with certain Tie-Rods and the rotor.  As a result the whole assembly needs to be moved outboard by ~3mm to ensure fitment across all brands of tie rods with enough clearance for a heat shield.

 

This is why we prototype things.   

 

As a result I removed the fitment chart from the above post.  Sorry for the confusion.  I will re-post it once I have moved things outboard and done some more checking.

 

1045197561_TieRod(Small).jpg.a58701f69b2aac7db587d58e434b9acd.jpg

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10 hours ago, Team Infiniti said:

But there are tie rods that fit? Why not proceed but with a note in the box.

 

The whole idea is that this is a plug-and-play solution.  I'm making this for myself primarily, and I want it to be right, otherwise I won't be happy.  If its only plug and play if you have tie-rod x, but tie-rod y is also a common OE replacement part, its not gonna be plug an play some % of the time.  It could even work on one side and not the other, hah.

 

Unfortunately it does mildly affect the fitment due to having to adjust the offset some.  Part of the game when trying to fit this ginormous rotor into a tiny car - I wanted it as inboard as possible for caliper x wheel clearance, and got it too close to the ball joint.

 

I think I might have jumped the gun "releasing" photos and stuff for this before I did all my checks.  I wanted to get it out there so people were thinking of it if interested as soon as I had renderings though. 

 

Sorry for the switch-a-roo.

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It’s all about the marketing. Get deposits and hype moving forward parts can come later😄. I’m still in for hats and brackets for sure. I’m scouring the internet and hitting up anyone who can get Wilwood at a discount. If I locate a deal I’ll forward it along. This will be a great setup here shortly. If you need anything I can help with let me know. I know you have a ton of e30 stuff 

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2 hours ago, TimS said:

It’s all about the marketing. Get deposits and hype moving forward parts can come later😄. I’m still in for hats and brackets for sure. I’m scouring the internet and hitting up anyone who can get Wilwood at a discount. If I locate a deal I’ll forward it along. This will be a great setup here shortly. If you need anything I can help with let me know. I know you have a ton of e30 stuff 

Try contacting 90racing.com and say that you’re a ChampCar team, we get a small discount from them on everything so they may be able to help you out too! I don’t know if they stock those calipers, but they might, and may order parts that aren’t normally listed on the site.

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15 minutes ago, atxe30 said:

I'm interested as well. @Chris Huggins do you have a rough idea of when the kit will land yet?

Hey, thanks for the expression of interest.

 

I am still hard at work on this. Still looking at the end of Q1 although that might get pushed back a few weeks.  For that timing I'd need to be ready to place my order by the end of the month, which isn't going to happen.

 

My 2nd prototype is finished today, this one corrects for the tie rod end clearance and I am attempting to gain a touch more radial clearance for wheel fitment.  I will get the results out asap and report back.

 

Website is nearing completion as well, where I should be able to route the orders through. 

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Bump.

 

Brake kit is complete.  I am going to send out for competitive bids this week.

 

Fitment update:

15x7 TRM = does not fit, even with 20mm spacer.  Hits drop center. Not even close.

15x8 TRM = does not fit.  Would be close with a 25mm spacer.

15x8.5 Konig = does not fit, even with 20mm spacer. Hits drop center (just barely, but too close to run safely)

15x10 Basset Steel = Does not fit.  Caliper hits mating face of wheel near lug holes.

 

15x10 Jongbloed = Clears by miles.

 

I will attach the template tonight for you to test on your wheel if its different than above.  

Fitment Sheet Attached.  Please make sure to use cardstock or tape paper to a ruler or something - any bending of the paper will give a false-positive fitment.  This template has a small bit of "margin" baked in for safety.

https://racehuggins.com/HugginsBrakeFitmentSheet.pdf

 

 

Website is almost done, thats the real hold up at this point.  I will take deposits through paypal once I know more.  

 

 

 

If you are interested in this for reals, I'll need to know in the next two weeks, and request a deposit (TBD based on bids) as well.

 

1. Chris (6 Brackets, 6 Hats)

2. ATXE30 (6 Brackets, 6 Hats)

3. 

4. 

 

 

Edited by Chris Huggins
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2 hours ago, Chris Huggins said:

Bump.

 

Brake kit is complete.  I am going to send out for competitive bids this week.

 

Fitment update:

15x7 TRM = does not fit, even with 20mm spacer.  Hits drop center. Not even close.

15x8.5 Konig = does not fit, even with 20mm spacer. Hits drop center (just barely, but too close to run safely)

 

15x10 Jongbloed = Clears by miles.

 

I will attach the template tonight for you to test on your wheel if its different than above.  

 

Website is almost done, thats the real hold up at this point.  I will take deposits through paypal once I know more.  

 

 

 

If you are interested in this for reals, I'll need to know in the next two weeks, and request a deposit (TBD based on bids) as well.

 

1. Chris (6 Brackets, 6 Hats)

2. 

3. 

4. 

 

 

Do TRM 15x8 wheels fit? 

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5 hours ago, enginerd said:

Do TRM 15x8 wheels fit? 

I will find out tomorrow, I'm meeting up with a guy who has one for me to test.  I sure hope it does, as I believe that is one of the more popular E30 wheels for racing.

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12 minutes ago, atxe30 said:

@Chris Huggins by any chance did you evaluate whether the SuperLight6's will fit with the JRW 15x10's? (fingers crossed yes). If so, I'm in for 6 brackets and hats...

As far as I know, the Superlite 6 piston radial mount calipers are the same externally as the superlite 4 piston radial mount calipers

 

Forged Superlite 6 Radial Mount Caliper Drawing

 

Forged Superlite 4 Radial Mount Caliper Drawing

 

So based on that, yes, they will fit by miles on an E30, which requires use of a 15mm spacer in the front to clear the strut.

 

Edited by Chris Huggins
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