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Radiators and Flywheels?


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Radiator rule is not changing from 2020.

 

Flywheel/clutch rule was approved based on the TAC's suggestion. 

 

Sent to Bill to upload to the BCCR, but the BOD still needs to look over to make sure the BCCR reflects what we sent 

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3 hours ago, E. Tyler Pedersen said:

Radiator rule is not changing from 2020.

 

Flywheel/clutch rule was approved based on the TAC's suggestion. 

 

Sent to Bill to upload to the BCCR, but the BOD still needs to look over to make sure the BCCR reflects what we sent 

I'll share with you what TAC's recommendations are.

THIS IS NOT OFFICIAL, as the BoD has not approved these recommendations yet (or may not.?.) 

-All flywheels must be OE, OE equivalent or SFI rated
-Unmodified, SFI rated steel flywheel with similar dimensions and stock type / single disc clutch 0 pts. 
-Dual-mass flywheels may be converted to single-mass meeting above specifications for 0 pts
-Aluminum / performance "light-weight" SFI rated flywheels with stock type clutch 10 pts.
-Multi-disc / smaller diameter clutch/flywheel systems 50 pts

 

Tyler- Is this what the rule is then? 

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1 hour ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

I'll share with you what TAC's recommendations are.

THIS IS NOT OFFICIAL, as the BoD has not approved these recommendations yet (or may not.?.) 

-All flywheels must be OE, OE equivalent or SFI rated
-Unmodified, SFI rated steel flywheel with similar dimensions and stock type / single disc clutch 0 pts. 
-Dual-mass flywheels may be converted to single-mass meeting above specifications for 0 pts
-Aluminum / performance "light-weight" SFI rated flywheels with stock type clutch 10 pts.
-Multi-disc / smaller diameter clutch/flywheel systems 50 pts

 

Tyler- Is this what the rule is then? 

 

That is what was approved. Yes. 

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Do any of the series we compete with require SFI flywheels. I don't think I can even purchase one for my car 02 Focus SVT. A stock clutch will come apart and be more dangerous than a SFI equivalent of course. Are we worried about a clutch explosion? Then we should talk about a trans blanket over the bellhousing. The loads we put on a clutch is much safer than a drag race car planting a sticky tire to the track & have the tremendous load transferred to the clutch & flywheel.   

Just trying to find out how we got here with this. 

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3 minutes ago, hotrod said:

Do any of the series we compete with require SFI flywheels. I don't think I can even purchase one for my car 02 Focus SVT. A stock clutch will come apart and be more dangerous than a SFI equivalent of course. Are we worried about a clutch explosion? Then we should talk about a trans blanket over the bellhousing. The loads we put on a clutch is much safer than a drag race car planting a sticky tire to the track & have the tremendous load transferred to the clutch & flywheel.   

Just trying to find out how we got here with this. 

I’ve looked.  No one requires the SFI rating outside of drag racing that I can find.  Some heavily modified classes require scatter shields if the plane of the flywheel is inline with your feet (RWD only) but that’s as close as any road racing or circle track series gets.  It’s absurd that Champcar has required this. It makes zero sense.  

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29 minutes ago, hotrod said:

Is this what we are afraid of. When did this happen at a ChampCar race? Most of our race cars can't buy an SFI flywheel.

 

 

Than they should probably stick to running a stock factory OEM setup, as IMO that follows the spirit of a low budget entry level series. 

 

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36 minutes ago, petawawarace said:

Can anyone enlighten us on why TAC and the BOD decided to make the SFI ruling? 
 

It would be great to know if there was a conscious decision to go SFI or if it’s lack of knowledge? 

To keep people safe.

 

When I bought my aluminum flywheel - which by the way is already installed, so a 10 point change will affect other parts I can add to my build**** - I checked with the manufacturer to see if it was SFI rated. Because I don't want me, or any of my drivers , or competitors for that matter, to have something happen like that picture depicts.

If Tech asks me if my aluminum flywheel is SFI rated, I can knowledgeably and correctly answer YES, because I made a phone call to the manufacturer to question it, and suggested that they put that fact on their website. See, this stuff is really not that complicated...

 

Kind of reminds me of a bigger picture going on right now - people trying to make recommendations to keep others safe are somehow scrutinized by those who think they know better.... I hope it doesn't get to the point where you guys start threatening us... (green font?)

 

****Oh, I included this part for those of you who's build are awaiting a decision on this. I'm in the same boat, waiting to see if my FW is 10 points or not, but I know that with the CEO transition, and listening to all that Dana Morrison described is going on at this time of the year with track contracts, etc. - I figure I can wait a bit longer.... 

 

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5 minutes ago, mcoppola said:

To keep people safe.

 

When I bought my aluminum flywheel - which by the way is already installed, so a 10 point change will affect other parts I can add to my build**** - I checked with the manufacturer to see if it was SFI rated. Because I don't want me, or any of my drivers , or competitors for that matter, to have something happen like that picture depicts.

If Tech asks me if my aluminum flywheel is SFI rated, I can knowledgeably and correctly answer YES, because I made a phone call to the manufacturer to question it, and suggested that they put that fact on their website. See, this stuff is really not that complicated...

 

Kind of reminds me of a bigger picture going on right now - people trying to make recommendations to keep others safe are somehow scrutinized by those who think they know better.... I hope it doesn't get to the point where you guys start threatening us... (green font?)

 

****Oh, I included this part for those of you who's build are awaiting a decision on this. I'm in the same boat, waiting to see if my FW is 10 points or not, but I know that with the CEO transition, and listening to all that Dana Morrison described is going on at this time of the year with track contracts, etc. - I figure I can wait a bit longer.... 

 

 

lol  Its funny that you call us out for questioning safety and thinking that we know better.  Its ironic that Champcar now seems to be the leader in safety. They seem to know better than NASA, SCCA, AER, WRL, IMSA, LD, Lemons, CRA, NASCAR, etc on flywheel safety. Literally noone outside of drag racing has this rule. Please think about that for a second.

 

And before you chastise me for questioning safety, its also a huge advantage to a select group of cars.  If you cant get an SFI rated flywheel for a Focus, or a Saab, or a Cadillac, how does that create parity?  One of the statements in the petition process states "No preferential emphasis is provided to any car type".  Can you not see how this creates a preferential treatment to some cars and not others?  I'm genuinely interested in your answer.

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Hey Mike. If a product is SFI approved shouldn't it come with that certification label on it? The SFI foundation tests the equipment not the manufacturer. There's also a fee for this charged from the SFI foundation. I have looked for a SFI flywheel for the Focus & can't come up with one not one that the seller advertises that it is SFI. 

In an earlier post I pointed out that ChampCar teams shouldn't need a SFI flywheel because the strain on our clutches & flywheels are nothing like what the drag race guys deal with. If I was drag racing without a hesitation I would run SFI & a trans blanket.

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9 minutes ago, petawawarace said:

 

 

lol  Its funny that you call us out for questioning safety and thinking that we know better.  Its ironic that Champcar now seems to be the leader in safety. They seem to know better than NASA, SCCA, AER, WRL, IMSA, LD, Lemons, CRA, NASCAR, etc on flywheel safety. Literally noone outside of drag racing has this rule. Please think about that for a second.

 

And before you chastise me for questioning safety, its also a huge advantage to a select group of cars.  If you cant get an SFI rated flywheel for a Focus, or a Saab, or a Cadillac, how does that create parity?  One of the statements in the petition process states "No preferential emphasis is provided to any car type".  Can you not see how this creates a preferential treatment to some cars and not others?  I'm genuinely interested in your answer.

This is exactly why most BoD members and TAC members now refrain from posting here.

You may be genuinely interested, but that doesn't force me to further engage in your soap box rant about this subject.

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9 minutes ago, hotrod said:

Hey Mike. If a product is SFI approved shouldn't it come with that certification label on it? The SFI foundation tests the equipment not the manufacturer. There's also a fee for this charged from the SFI foundation. I have looked for a SFI flywheel for the Focus & can't come up with one not one that the seller advertises that it is SFI. 

In an earlier post I pointed out that ChampCar teams shouldn't need a SFI flywheel because the strain on our clutches & flywheels are nothing like what the drag race guys deal with. If I was drag racing without a hesitation I would run SFI & a trans blanket.

 

Once again......

 

 

24 minutes ago, mcoppola said:

When I bought my aluminum flywheel, I checked with the manufacturer to see if it was SFI rated. Because I don't want me, or any of my drivers , or competitors for that matter, to have something happen like that picture depicts.

If Tech asks me if my aluminum flywheel is SFI rated, I can knowledgeably and correctly answer YES, because I made a phone call to the manufacturer to question it, and suggested that they put that fact on their website. 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, mcoppola said:

This is exactly why most BoD members and TAC members now refrain from posting here.

You may be genuinely interested, but that doesn't force me to further engage in your soap box rant about this subject.

Ha. Soap box. Sure.  I have genuine concerns, point out several obvious flaws and you just dodge the question with an insult. Classy. 

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I'm not seeing where I insulted anyone.

I volunteered and was picked to be on the TAC with 6 other guys, along with a BoD that were picked - all to try to make fair rules to keep competitors safe. I will continue in that role and offer advice or info here when I see fit. I will not engage in a pissing match with members if I can help it because I know that serves no purpose. 

If you're not happy with a rule, you are welcome to write to the BoD, TAC, CEO, whoever - wait, you already did that and got the same answer, so I guess it's easier to pick on 1 guy in a public forum - sad...

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I'm not making fun,  it's rather frustrating that flywheels went from point (not published in the rules but in some other rule book) to free, back to points for some flywheels.  As far as the SFI rating goes, it reminds me of Tommy Boy and that's why I made the meme.  I looked at one clutch manufacture website and it claimed all their clutches and fly wheels have been SFI tested and approved and that's all it states.  I couldn't find any other documentation to back that up, so I guess we just take their word for it?  And as always, #lowerthectsvpi 

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  How does OE, OE equivalent or SFI rated,  mean SFI is required for every car ?  

   

On 12/15/2020 at 1:34 PM, petawawarace said:

I’ve looked.  No one requires the SFI rating outside of drag racing that I can find.  Some heavily modified classes require scatter shields if the plane of the flywheel is inline with your feet (RWD only) but that’s as close as any road racing or circle track series gets.  It’s absurd that Champcar has required this. It makes zero sense.  

  Answer it does not.. 

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