turbogrill Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 Hi, Have you guys been successful in running a turbo charged car in champ? What about turbo converted cars??? The only turbo charged cars I know of has been running OEM turbos with little or no boost increase. For 125 pts you get a turbo and intercooler, ECU is free, maybe ~10 pts in better cooling, maybe some points for better ignition. Is it the fuel that makes this idea less fun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MR2 Biohazard Posted December 17, 2020 Members Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 56 minutes ago, turbogrill said: Hi, Have you guys been successful in running a turbo charged car in champ? What about turbo converted cars??? The only turbo charged cars I know of has been running OEM turbos with little or no boost increase. For 125 pts you get a turbo and intercooler, ECU is free, maybe ~10 pts in better cooling, maybe some points for better ignition. Is it the fuel that makes this idea less fun? The only one I have seen that last long term is the SAAB and they are heavily over engineered from stock, well the old ones, the new ones, not so much with a gm engine. I have seen tuttle try it for a while and then went to a na swap instead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mopar 4 Life Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 We went turbo with the doom cruiser for a year and a half as an experiment. It’s tough. The power is there, but a lot has to be considered. We ran a triple pass rad about 2.5” thick, we ran a oil cooler from setrab that was in the 30,000 btu range. We were lucky to be able to run 17 gallons of fuel. But to make two hours we had to lower to below factory boost levels, and to make things more complicated we added a scramble boost button that would raise above stock boost levels when needed. If used to much it would time out. Trans cooling might also be necessary. It takes a lot of work. In the end it was a fruitless endeavour. We won a ton of d class trophies. Probably pissed off a ton of North East D class cars as we were the smallest D class car to compete (2430cc + Turbo). But we got to pass a lot of cars in a PT cruiser, so there’s that. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 2 hours ago, MR2 Biohazard said: I have seen tuttle try it for a while and then went to a na swap instead. Mitsu 4 banger turbos... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 We ran a turbo rotary back in the day. Stock boost. It did great until we had a coolant leak and overheated the crap out of the engine at wgi one year. Went back to NA and used points on suspension. Went a couple seconds a lap faster with the NA and better suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankrehnelt Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) Isn’t there a Miata turbo on the west coast that’s fast and reliable? We are building a Miata that we might turbo charge at some point (the guy that’s helping with the build is a turbo guy). I’ve also thought a good build would be a e30 with the m10 turbo charged. It would need to use the smaller tank but with a cell you’d have almost 17 gallons. Edited December 17, 2020 by frankrehnelt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karman1970 Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 The old Volvo redblocks, even with moderate boost are supposed to be virtually indestructible. But I don't know of anyone running one. I heard there was a 924 Turbo running out on the west coast many years ago. I think cooling and oiling is still the biggest hindrance, followed by fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachMK21 Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 Our 940 Volvo was a turbo, before we LS-swapped it. It was fast, but we always had stupid issues that were mostly turbo related. When the motor decided to become holey at Pitt in 2019 we went to the LS. In general, I don't think running a turbo makes sense. You can get similar power and more reliability from other methods/points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotchkis23 Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 34 minutes ago, karman1970 said: The old Volvo redblocks, even with moderate boost are supposed to be virtually indestructible. But I don't know of anyone running one. I heard there was a 924 Turbo running out on the west coast many years ago. I think cooling and oiling is still the biggest hindrance, followed by fuel. U-Boot was the 924 Turbo, raced them at Vegas. I believe they run LD now exclusively. Car was well sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiredBirds Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 I think if you kept the boost low and got rid of the extra heat it'd work, but as others mentioned, safer and easier just to add things like a cam, headwork, compression, headers.... it only takes a split second to burn up a cylinder if you somehow go lean. AMHIK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slugworks Paul Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) @red0 and I were very successful with an add-on turbo civic in 2014. We won, got a 2nd, and were winning in dominant fashion at another race when some wiring went bad. As a disclaimer, we had a dyno tuner and performance shop owner on our team so we had plenty of dyno time and a very robust tune on the car. After that run, Condren changed the turbo rules to make it about 1500 points to add a turbo, for a few years before it was lowered again. After that, I went to a factory turbo car (eclipse GSX) and got a couple wins with it. I know turbo cars and love racing them in an endurance setting. The eclipse will eventually make a triumphant return. It can be done, and it can be done safely so the equipment lasts. One issue that's hard to get around is that you have to tune a turbo car richer for safety, which will hurt your fuel mileage. Edited December 17, 2020 by Slugworks Paul 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revvhappy Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 Eyesore racing in Lemons wins a LOT of races with a turbo Miata. https://www.facebook.com/EyesoreRacingTeam/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veris Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Slugworks Paul said: It can be done, and it can be done safely so the equipment lasts. One issue that's hard to get around is that you have to tune a turbo car richer for safety, which will hurt your fuel mileage. This. My team has been successfully run turbo cars in endurance racing. An OE turbo car can be reliable but the fuel burn rate is 15 to 20% more for the same amount of HP. Converting a NA motor to a turbo has also worked for us, but the OE version was more reliable. A RX7 with a piston turbo motor swap might work well in Champcar; big tank. I love rotaries, but I haven't seen many run reliably with or without boost in endurance racing. In a series like Lucky Dog were you can drop in a 22 gallon fuel cell into any car it might be a solid option. I think a Turbo SRT4 with a 22 gallon cell would work very nicely in that series. Edited December 17, 2020 by veris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, veris said: This. My team has been successfully run turbo cars in endurance racing. An OE turbo car can be reliable but the fuel burn rate is 15 to 20% more for the same amount of HP. Converting a NA motor to a turbo has also worked for us, but the OE version was more reliable. A RX7 with a piston turbo motor swap might work well in Champcar; big tank. I love rotaries, but I haven't seen many run reliably with or without boost in endurance racing. In a series like Lucky Dog were you can drop in a 22 gallon fuel cell into any car it might be a solid option. I think a Turbo SRT4 with a 22 gallon cell would work very nicely in that series. Just to clarify, the turbo we ran was a rotary. We have never once had a rotary engine issue in 8 years of running the rotary in these types of races. Ymmv. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veris Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said: Just to clarify, the turbo we ran was a rotary. We have never once had a rotary engine issue in 8 years of running the rotary in these types of races. Ymmv. That's awesome. What was your secret? I haven't seen or heard of that type of success with a rotary before. The only type of car I've seen have more failures are the NA Neon's (DOHC motors and transmissions). Edited December 17, 2020 by veris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 No idea. We beat the ever living crap out of that engine. It's now in my buddies car and still makes good compression. We also beat the crap out of a 12a for a few years and never had engine issues with that one ever. I've owned 12 or 13 rotary powered vehicles. Only failure of an engine I ever had was a a piece of a housing broke near the coolant system and it would pressurized the radiator. I also did have an engine I rebuilt because it was puffing smoke when downshifting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted December 17, 2020 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 3 hours ago, veris said: In a series like Lucky Dog were you can drop in a 22 gallon fuel cell into any car it might be a solid option. I think a Turbo SRT4 with a 22 gallon cell would work very nicely in that series. Would be really cool to see an SRT4 in either series. We had our first (to my knowledge) SRT4 race in LDR @ PIR this last October, unfortunately they had heat issues and possible headgasket failure. Which brings up another point about turbo cars in endurance racing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 What is that cars name again? GORT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee mcoppola Posted December 17, 2020 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 (edited) 35 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said: What is that cars name again? GORT? Nah, i think that one is Klaatu. Andrew and his dad have weird names for stuff. Did you ever drink their GLOGG? GORT was the spaceship looking car. (I think) Edited December 17, 2020 by mcoppola 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EngEtan Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 Interesting. I've been wondering why I don't see more turbo cars out there, seeing how adding power is so much easier with turbo cars. I'm currently building one of my own and I've set much of my focus on heat management. Hoping to prove that a 4g63t can be reliable even in endurance racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorman Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 4 hours ago, veris said: In a series like Lucky Dog were you can drop in a 22 gallon fuel cell into any car it might be a solid option. I think a Turbo SRT4 with a 22 gallon cell would work very nicely in that series. It would be neat to run a Neon SRT4 in this series if it could get enough fuel. Mostly because we have a Neon SRT4 expert on our team with @MoparBoyy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roadracer4life Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 We have run a turbo on our volvo 240 with limited success.. No issues from the turbo side but the added heat and power tend to show us other weaknesses in our car "brakes, clutch " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbogrill Posted December 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 1 hour ago, mcoppola said: Nah, i think that one is Klaatu. Andrew and his dad have weird names for stuff. Did you ever drink their GLOGG? GORT was the spaceship looking car. (I think) It's GLÖGG (the home made is the best) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindspin311 Posted December 17, 2020 Report Share Posted December 17, 2020 Trying to make the Mini work. Daytona this summer water temps were stable at around 200F, tstat opens at 225 from the factory. Working to get a data setup to monitor oil temps. We added a cooler as precaution but have no idea what it's doing right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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