Jump to content

Turbos in champcar? How common?


turbogrill
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hi,

 

Have you guys been successful in running a turbo charged car in champ? What about turbo converted cars???

 

The only turbo charged cars I know of has been running OEM turbos with little or no boost increase.

 

For 125 pts you get a turbo and intercooler, ECU is free, maybe ~10 pts in better cooling, maybe some points for better ignition.

 

Is it the fuel that makes this idea less fun? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
56 minutes ago, turbogrill said:

Hi,

 

Have you guys been successful in running a turbo charged car in champ? What about turbo converted cars???

 

The only turbo charged cars I know of has been running OEM turbos with little or no boost increase.

 

For 125 pts you get a turbo and intercooler, ECU is free, maybe ~10 pts in better cooling, maybe some points for better ignition.

 

Is it the fuel that makes this idea less fun? 

The only one I have seen that last long term is the SAAB and they are heavily over engineered from stock, well the old ones, the new ones, not so much with a gm engine.

 

I have seen tuttle try it for a while and then went to a na swap instead.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We went turbo with the doom cruiser for a year and a half as an experiment.

 

It’s tough. The power is there, but a lot has to be considered. We ran a triple pass rad about 2.5” thick, we ran a oil cooler from setrab that was in the 30,000 btu range. We were lucky to be able to run 17 gallons of fuel. But to make two hours we had to lower to below factory boost levels, and to make things more complicated we added a scramble boost button that would raise above stock boost levels when needed. If used to much it would time out. Trans cooling might also be necessary.

 

It takes a lot of work. In the end it was a fruitless endeavour. We won a ton of d class trophies. Probably pissed off a ton of North East D class cars as we were the smallest D class car to compete (2430cc + Turbo). But we got to pass a lot of cars in a PT cruiser, so there’s that.

  • Like 2
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We ran a turbo rotary back in the day.  Stock boost.

 

It did great until we had a coolant leak and overheated the crap out of the engine at wgi one year.

 

Went back to NA and used points on suspension.  Went a couple seconds a lap faster with the NA and better suspension.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Isn’t there a Miata turbo on the west coast that’s fast and reliable? We are building a Miata that we might turbo charge at some point (the guy that’s helping with the build is a turbo guy). I’ve also thought a good build would be a e30 with the m10 turbo charged. It would need to use the smaller tank but with a cell you’d have almost 17 gallons. 

Edited by frankrehnelt
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The old Volvo redblocks, even with moderate boost are supposed to be virtually indestructible.  But I don't know of anyone running one.  I heard there was a 924 Turbo running out on the west coast many years ago.  I think cooling and oiling is still the biggest hindrance, followed by fuel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our 940 Volvo was a turbo, before we LS-swapped it.  It was fast, but we always had stupid issues that were mostly turbo related.  When the motor decided to become holey at Pitt in 2019 we went to the LS.

 

In general, I don't think running a turbo makes sense.  You can get similar power and more reliability from other methods/points.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, karman1970 said:

The old Volvo redblocks, even with moderate boost are supposed to be virtually indestructible.  But I don't know of anyone running one.  I heard there was a 924 Turbo running out on the west coast many years ago.  I think cooling and oiling is still the biggest hindrance, followed by fuel.

U-Boot was the 924 Turbo, raced them at Vegas.  I believe they run LD now exclusively.  Car was well sorted. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@red0 and I were very successful with an add-on turbo civic in 2014. We won, got a 2nd, and were winning in dominant fashion at another race when some wiring went bad. As a disclaimer, we had a dyno tuner and performance shop owner on our team so we had plenty of dyno time and a very robust tune on the car.

After that run, Condren changed the turbo rules to make it about 1500 points to add a turbo, for a few years before it was lowered again. After that, I went to a factory turbo car (eclipse GSX) and got a couple wins with it. I know turbo cars and love racing them in an endurance setting. The eclipse will eventually make a triumphant return.

It can be done, and it can be done safely so the equipment lasts. One issue that's hard to get around is that you have to tune a turbo car richer for safety, which will hurt your fuel mileage.
 

Edited by Slugworks Paul
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Slugworks Paul said:

It can be done, and it can be done safely so the equipment lasts. One issue that's hard to get around is that you have to tune a turbo car richer for safety, which will hurt your fuel mileage.

 

This. My team has been successfully run turbo cars in endurance racing. An OE turbo car can be reliable but the fuel burn rate is 15 to 20% more for the same amount of HP. Converting a NA motor to a turbo has also worked for us, but the OE version was more reliable. 

 

A RX7 with a piston turbo motor swap might work well in Champcar; big tank. I love rotaries, but I haven't seen many run reliably with or without boost in endurance racing. 

 

In a series like Lucky Dog were you can drop in a 22 gallon fuel cell into any car it might be a solid option. I think a Turbo SRT4 with a 22 gallon cell would work very nicely in that series. 

Edited by veris
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, veris said:

 

This. My team has been successfully run turbo cars in endurance racing. An OE turbo car can be reliable but the fuel burn rate is 15 to 20% more for the same amount of HP. Converting a NA motor to a turbo has also worked for us, but the OE version was more reliable. 

 

A RX7 with a piston turbo motor swap might work well in Champcar; big tank. I love rotaries, but I haven't seen many run reliably with or without boost in endurance racing. 

 

In a series like Lucky Dog were you can drop in a 22 gallon fuel cell into any car it might be a solid option. I think a Turbo SRT4 with a 22 gallon cell would work very nicely in that series. 

Just to clarify, the turbo we ran was a rotary.

 

We have never once had a rotary engine issue in 8 years of running the rotary in these types of races.

 

Ymmv.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Just to clarify, the turbo we ran was a rotary.

 

We have never once had a rotary engine issue in 8 years of running the rotary in these types of races.

 

Ymmv.

 

That's awesome. What was your secret?

 

I haven't seen or heard of that type of success with a rotary before. The only type of car I've seen have more failures are the NA Neon's (DOHC motors and transmissions). 

Edited by veris
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No idea.  We beat the ever living crap out of that engine.  It's now in my buddies car and still makes good compression.

 

We also beat the crap out of a 12a for a few years and never had engine issues with that one ever.

 

I've owned 12 or 13 rotary powered vehicles.  Only failure of an engine I ever had was a a piece of a housing broke near the coolant system and it would pressurized the radiator.

 

I also did have an engine I rebuilt because it was puffing smoke when downshifting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, veris said:

In a series like Lucky Dog were you can drop in a 22 gallon fuel cell into any car it might be a solid option. I think a Turbo SRT4 with a 22 gallon cell would work very nicely in that series. 

 

Would be really cool to see an SRT4 in either series.  We had our first (to my knowledge) SRT4 race in LDR @ PIR this last October, unfortunately they had heat issues and possible headgasket failure. Which brings up another point about turbo cars in endurance racing...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Technical Advisory Committee
35 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

What is that cars name again?  GORT? 

Nah, i think that one is Klaatu.

Andrew and his dad have weird names for stuff. 

Did you ever drink their GLOGG?

 

GORT was the spaceship looking car. (I think)

Edited by mcoppola
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting. I've been wondering why I don't see more turbo cars out there, seeing how adding power is so much easier with turbo cars.

 

I'm currently building one of my own and I've set much of my focus on heat management. Hoping to prove that a 4g63t can be reliable even in endurance racing.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, veris said:

In a series like Lucky Dog were you can drop in a 22 gallon fuel cell into any car it might be a solid option. I think a Turbo SRT4 with a 22 gallon cell would work very nicely in that series. 

It would be neat to run a Neon SRT4 in this series if it could get enough fuel. Mostly because we have a Neon SRT4 expert on our team with @MoparBoyy

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...