Manifolds for swaps...

[wvumtnbkr]

Anybody read the new rule?

 

Maybe i missed the discussion, but that seems like a large change for some folks!

 

I think it's 4.5.3.2

 

Swap engines need to use the stock manifold or it's a 25 point hit.  BUT, manifolds may be modified.  Doesn't say how.

Edited December 18, 2020 by wvumtnbkr

[E. Tyler Pedersen]

A question was asked on Tech Desk. Tech asked the BOD to take a look at it and make a decision. The BOD was in agreement that swaps should not get a free performance advantage by swapping because an engine doesn't fit. We are fine with people modifying the OE or stock manifold for it to fit. If you need to use another intake manifold then it should be charged points. 

[JDChristianson]

This must be what your referring to.    

4.5.3.2. The intake manifold used in the swap must be the OE or stock intake manifold that came from the engine you are swapping into your vehicle.  If you need to swap to a different intake manifold from what engine is going into the car then it will be 25 points. 4.3.3 - 4.5.3.2 HTTPS://CHAMPCAR.ORG © 2021-v3.0.0. 14 Modifications to the intake manifold to fit are allowed

 

This says modifications to fit are allowed.   To me that means minor modifications and not cutting off the flange and making an intake and calling it a modified stock unit.   Buuuuut what I read and think are not always what ends up happening.    

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by JDChristianson

[wvumtnbkr]

Thanks.  I edited the first post with the correct section.

 

I wonder if anybody will "reswap" to an engine that doesn't require a manifold swap.

 

I also ASSUME that rotating a stock manifold 180 and bolting it back down is still zero points....   ....asking for a friend...

[JDChristianson]

5 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Thanks.  I edited the first post with the correct section.

 

I wonder if anybody will "reswap" to an engine that doesn't require a manifold swap.

 

I also ASSUME that rotating a stock manifold 180 and bolting it back down is still zero points....   ....asking for a friend...

I would sure think turning the manifold around is ok....just not on rx7's   definitely points on an rx7

[hotchkis23]

Looks like the mitsu/nismo boys are gonna have some fun changing both the exhaust and intake manifolds or eating 50pts....

[Team Infiniti]

@Lethal Cliff. @Tuttle561 

This affects a few people including our new build

Does this apply to exhaust as well?

[wvumtnbkr]

Doesn't say exhaust.

 

 

[wvumtnbkr]

Sooo, can anybody tell me exactly why they can't get the stock intake manifold to fit?

 

I am not sure what things would be in the way.

 

What if you put on a 3.0 liter manifold and valve covers?  Would that work?  #greenfont.  Lolz.

[Snorman]

Didn't the free manifold apply to the 240SX that were swapping to the Nissan V6 and getting a 300ZX intake for FREE? I seem to remember there was a carve out for these swaps. 

Did this apply to other swaps as well? 

[wvumtnbkr]

2 minutes ago, Snorman said:

Didn't the free manifold apply to the 240SX that were swapping to the Nissan V6 and getting a 300ZX intake for FREE? I seem to remember there was a carve out for these swaps. 

Did this apply to other swaps as well? 

I believe there were 2 or 3 combinations that were helped with this.   I do think most or all were Nissan engined swaps.

[hotchkis23]

11 minutes ago, Snorman said:

Didn't the free manifold apply to the 240SX that were swapping to the Nissan V6 and getting a 300ZX intake for FREE? I seem to remember there was a carve out for these swaps. 

Did this apply to other swaps as well? 

If anyone did a Jswap most of those need to have the manifold changed to not dump into the firewall... 

 

Exhaust manifolds have to either be stock, or stock to another vehicle on the vpi list.  No custom made manifolds, in fact, it doesn't say you can modify the stock exhast manifold either, so does this mean teams that have taken and cut up their manifolds to create a better fitting manifold incur 25pts?

[enginerd]

33 minutes ago, hotchkis23 said:

If anyone did a Jswap most of those need to have the manifold changed to not dump into the firewall... 

 

Exhaust manifolds have to either be stock, or stock to another vehicle on the vpi list.  No custom made manifolds, in fact, it doesn't say you can modify the stock exhast manifold either, so does this mean teams that have taken and cut up their manifolds to create a better fitting manifold incur 25pts?

Modifying stock parts has always been allowed. I don’t see how for this case you wouldn’t be allowed to bend or cut and reweld an OE manifold to make it fit.

[NigelStu]

40 minutes ago, hotchkis23 said:

If anyone did a Jswap most of those need to have the manifold changed to not dump into the firewall... 

 

Exhaust manifolds have to either be stock, or stock to another vehicle on the vpi list.  No custom made manifolds, in fact, it doesn't say you can modify the stock exhast manifold either, so does this mean teams that have taken and cut up their manifolds to create a better fitting manifold incur 25pts?

J30 is one of those engines where you can unbolt the intake manifold/lower runners, turn it 180 degrees and bolt it back on.  only 'fabrication' needed is to block off a newly exposed port.   That is exactly what I've done with a couple of the street car J-swap miatas I have done.

[Team Infiniti]

Some FWD Intakes wind up sucking toward the fiwewall thus the need to give slack, I personally do not agree but have already collected a bunch of RWD intake stuff as it DOES give the little maxima engine a few ponies and has been allowed.

 

Saying that, it does look like some FWD stuff can be flipped or modded to work RWD, if not, I say re make the firewall or choose a different engine.

[erich]

3 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

Sooo, can anybody tell me exactly why they can't get the stock intake manifold to fit?

 

In our case (VW Fox with an 2l ABA swap) the stock intake manifold goes over the top of the valve cover and the hood clears the top of the valve cover by about a half an inch up front.  There's simply no way to use the stock manifold without putting a giant hole in the hood.

 

I did take the opportunity to make a nice long runner intake with better flow, so I'd be taking the points.

[cowboys647]

I like this new ruling. I think it removes a loophole for free parts and slows the speed creep a bit. While I imagine it’s sucks for the teams that have to swap/modify parts, I hope more of these are made in the future. 

[scottyk]

3 hours ago, Team Infiniti said:

Some FWD Intakes wind up sucking toward the fiwewall thus the need to give slack, I personally do not agree but have already collected a bunch of RWD intake stuff as it DOES give the little maxima engine a few ponies and has been allowed.

 

Saying that, it does look like some FWD stuff can be flipped or modded to work RWD, if not, I say re make the firewall or choose a different engine.

The vq30 was only made in FWD. you sure you have a vq30, Brian?

[Clifford Beisler]

Yup this rule directly impacts NLS.  We have been running the 350z intake on the 96 Maxima 3.0 engine.  So now we have to either claim the 25 points for the intake manifold. Or find a way to make the 3.0 intake fit in our car.  The exhaust rule does not change anything for us we have always run OE 350z exhaust manifolds. I just bought a couple 3.0 cores from the junkyard to see if we can make the OE intake work.  I know I am biased but, I think the intake rule should be the same as the exhaust manifold rule.  Must come from a OE car on the VPI list.  Also our swap weights were changed and the swap cost is now more than the past.  I guess as a car builder I should be proud that the rule changes directly impacts us,  Must be doing something right.  We will deal with it and get faster.

 

Time to learn how to tig cast Aluminium.

.

Edited December 18, 2020 by Lethal Cliff

[Clifford Beisler]

5 hours ago, Snorman said:

Didn't the free manifold apply to the 240SX that were swapping to the Nissan V6 and getting a 300ZX intake for FREE? I seem to remember there was a carve out for these swaps. 

Did this apply to other swaps as well? 

The rule was a gray area 3 years ago when we did our swap.  The tech sheet said the intake could be included in the swap.  The rule book did not say anything about the intake manifold.  So we had a tech desk ruling saying we could run the 350z intake on our swap.  

[mender]

2 hours ago, Lethal Cliff said:

Time to learn how to tig cast Aluminium.

Very useful skill.

[scottyk]

10 minutes ago, mender said:

Very useful skill.

To bad that’s not a Vq30 intake

[Team Infiniti]

3 hours ago, scottyk said:

The vq30 was only made in FWD. you sure you have a vq30, Brian?

The statement was for all swaps, not just our vq30 that we have already gotten various vq35 intakes for.

 

No biggie, saves a bunch of porting.

 

Ed

Edited December 19, 2020 by Team Infiniti

[scottyk]

Just now, Team Infiniti said:

The statement was for all swaps, not just vq30 that we have already gotten various vq35 intakes for.

 

Ed

You can’t run a vq35 in that car, unless you claim the 260hp

[Team Infiniti]

1 minute ago, scottyk said:

You can’t run a vq35 in that car, unless you claim the 260hp

For our purposes, cant run ANYTHING except the vq30 in that car, not even the pathfinder  240hp , again, no biggie, saves all that port matching, not only that, we planned on modding the firewall.