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9 minutes ago, turbogrill said:

Why would Chumpcar be against american cars? 

 

Not saying the are not but curious what the reason would be. (Its not like Mazda or BMW is a huge sponsor)

Because someone said it’s so, it’s true, correct?

the same management structure that has told us they artificially set low VPI’s for American Iron to encourage their use is against American cars. 
that's what some folks would like you to believe. 

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That’s +25 hp to my cars.. I don’t think you want that

To be fair, the incoming swap motor's hp is based on the configuration it was in from the donor vehicle. Any change in manifolds, exhaust or intake, can render that hp rating invalid, and thus violate

Exhaust and intake manifold changes should always be points. Swap or no swap.    VPI and swap points don't take into consideration performance changes swapping manifolds provide.   

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1 minute ago, mcoppola said:

Because someone said it’s so, it’s true, correct?

the same management structure that has told us they artificially set low VPI’s for American Iron to encourage their use is against American cars. 
that's what some folks would like you to believe. 

Well said Mike, as I was typing about the very same thing. Some old brains must think alike, kinda makes you wonder.

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Gee, I don't know. Maybe because a CRX and Miata were running as fast as a Mustang at a power track and only the Mustang is levied 50 points on VPI?

 

Or a Thunderbird was bumped 100 points, later dropped to "just" 50 after a lot of well justified screaming, after leading a race. Note it didn't even win. (There were at least 2 TBirds being built until that fiasco.)

 

G bodies have a swap weight of 2900 pounds. A roadtest of a 83 Monte, where they actually weighed it, was 3500.

 

A number of American cars have been removed from the VPI list and yet there are 5 different Triumph's. Are there any Triumphs running? Why would someone that wants to run this series bother if their common American car is not even on the list?

 

Third and Fourth Gen F bodies have small fuel tanks and are heavy. Wouldn't guess from the VPI. Has one ever won a race?

 

I'm sure others will be along with more examples.

 

I said it earlier but apparently it needs to be said again; The only tracks American Iron generally run well are the bigger, higher speed ones. By slowing them so small, nimble but low powered cars can win at horsepower tracks Champcar is making it so American Iron cannot win anywhere. Meanwhile, those small, nimble low powered cars can win on any track. 

 

Not one word about how fast the CRX is that finished second, on the same lap, as the Mustang. But the Mustang needs to be slowed down so gets banged with 50 points. Frankly that is a joke and Champ should be embarrassed.

 

To add, Slugworks Paul said it well concerning this wack a mole crap. Why bother building a car and coming here if you are just going to get slapped down for building a fast car to the rules and winning?

 

It's been proven by past VPI revisions that Champ will smack down any AI car that threatens to upset the applecart. Doesn't even require a win.

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43 minutes ago, mcoppola said:

Because someone said it’s so, it’s true, correct?

the same management structure that has told us they artificially set low VPI’s for American Iron to encourage their use is against American cars. 
that's what some folks would like you to believe. 

Right. And people were perfectly happy with that "artificially...low" VPI until somebody built one. 

And now that they are on equal footing with well built E30s, Miatas, SC300s, etc. they need to be smacked down. We can't have Mustangs out there taking podiums spots away from those cars. 


 

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28 minutes ago, Snorman said:

Right. And people were perfectly happy with that "artificially...low" VPI until somebody built one. 

And now that they are on equal footing with well built E30s, Miatas, SC300s, etc. they need to be smacked down. We can't have Mustangs out there taking podiums spots away from those cars. 


 

As I recall the "artificially low" comment was about the C3 being dropped to 150, from 500, to stimulate someone into building one. No other domestic had it's VPI lowered. Quite the opposite actually.

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16 minutes ago, turbogrill said:

A 1980 camaro has a VPI of 150, 3100lbs swap weight, 20 gallons(?).

Seems like its asking for a LS 4.8 with a cam. 

 

Seems low to me?

4.8 bumps it up to 417 points. Cam puts it at 467. Headers, as truck manifolds won't work, puts it at 492 points.

 

Hope you don't need anything else. And if you do win your VPI will go up and now you are in EC.

 

A few have run/are running right now, but I don't recall one ever winning. There is one, out of WI I think, that is getting faster each time they run it. Blitz made a lot of noise and had a lot of people up in arms but I think it always broke. Some actually cheered when it was totaled at VIR.

 

Frankly, I see that as the next GBU car but it won't have an LS motor in it. 

 

Note-It's always been 150 points as it is heavy. It was not artificially lowered.

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Is it me or does every other thread get hijacked by people b1tching about American iron this or t-bird that.  Our car got hit with 25+ points this off season.  I'm not complaining. I'm making our car work under the rule changes.  Rules will always change in any form of racing. If you go too fast you get smacked down, that is all forms of motorsports. 

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49 minutes ago, Bandit said:

4.8 bumps it up to 417 points. Cam puts it at 467. Headers, as truck manifolds won't work, puts it at 492 points.

 

Hope you don't need anything else. And if you do win your VPI will go up and now you are in EC.

 

A few have run/are running right now, but I don't recall one ever winning. There is one, out of WI I think, that is getting faster each time they run it. Blitz made a lot of noise and had a lot of people up in arms but I think it always broke. Some actually cheered when it was totaled at VIR.

 

Frankly, I see that as the next GBU car but it won't have an LS motor in it. 

 

Note-It's always been 150 points as it is heavy. It was not artificially lowered.

I get it to 

 

 

Make: Chevrolet
Model: Camaro
Year: 1981
VPi: 150
Car Weight: 3145
Original HP: 150
New HP: 255
Points Added to VPi: 128
--->NEW VPI: 278

 

 

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, turbogrill said:

I get it to 

 

 

Make: Chevrolet
Model: Camaro
Year: 1981
VPi: 150
Car Weight: 3145
Original HP: 150
New HP: 255
Points Added to VPi: 128
--->NEW VPI: 278

 

 

 

 

 

I forgot the 4.8 could be had as low as 255. I was remembering it at 270. With that one it would be a very good start on a 2nd gen. Cams really wake them up.

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5 hours ago, Lethal Cliff said:

Is it me or does every other thread get hijacked by people b1tching about American iron this or t-bird that.  Our car got hit with 25+ points this off season.  I'm not complaining. I'm making our car work under the rule changes.  Rules will always change in any form of racing. If you go too fast you get smacked down, that is all forms of motorsports. 


*Nissan and American Iron. Haha. My car got hit with 20 points from 500 to 520. I’m trying to come up with creative ways to making that one work! 🤣

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On 12/30/2020 at 3:33 PM, turbogrill said:

A 1980 camaro has a VPI of 150, 3100lbs swap weight, 20 gallons(?).

Seems like its asking for a LS 4.8 with a cam. 

 

Seems low to me?

no need for a LS under the current "points" structure you could build a 400+HP 350 and still be way under 500 points. The initial cost of a Gen II F-Body is the hold up. Anything in decent shape is going to cost big bucks, Gen III's and Gen Iv's however can be found cheap in running/driving condition. 

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Aero is about right. The optimum setup is 60 points and very hard to do. (Splitter, air dam, side skirts, flat bottom, rear diffuser, spoiler setup for drag reduction). Near maximum down force with lower drag. 

 

Adding a wing instead of a spoiler above can maximize down force at the expense of drag. Unless you have GBU power I don't think it would be beneficial.

 

A wing is the easy button for rear grip, but it needs to be balanced with a good front splitter. Which is now typically 20 points with air dam and/or diffusers. It also adds drag unlike the diffuser. So it is self balancing. 

 

  • Aero point are about right. 
  • Free brakes are too cheap. 
  • Camber and toe changes are too expense.
  • Swaps are about right. I would only change that the calculator use the greater of max hp or max torque; solves unicorn builds with diesel and old v8 swap amounts. 
  • Fuel is too expensive; unavailable. IMO should be very expensive but available. 

 

My only concern with aero is a swap car that has a high HP motor and a dialed in aero. Otherwise aero is a good balancer for swapped cars that used to dominate. 

 

I wouldn't be opposed to limiting aero to cars with OE motors. Pick a ditch; swap or aero. That said I don't think it is required at this time. With most cars having the proper VPI we aren't seeing swapped aero cars dominate. 

 

Really outside of unicorns the series is in the best place it has ever been for variety and car types winning. 

 

Lastly the only thing I'm really worried about in 2021 is getting the damn border opened so I can make some US races. 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, TiredBirds said:

no need for a LS under the current "points" structure you could build a 400+HP 350 and still be way under 500 points. The initial cost of a Gen II F-Body is the hold up. Anything in decent shape is going to cost big bucks, Gen III's and Gen Iv's however can be found cheap in running/driving condition. 

 

It seems like you need a little more skills to build a robust SBC than a LS. With LS it seems like you can cam  a 150k miles Silverado engine  and be done?

 

The gen 2 looks awesome :) can see why they cost money. I could daily one of those 

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16 minutes ago, turbogrill said:

 

It seems like you need a little more skills to build a robust SBC than a LS. With LS it seems like you can cam  a 150k miles Silverado engine  and be done?

 

The gen 2 looks awesome :) can see why they cost money. I could daily one of those 

 spec 350's for roundy roundy  make over 400 w/ iron heads and a 2bbl. Yes the LS is a beast but it is a points hit. of course I'd be doing a Trans Am not a Camaro...... 

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1 hour ago, TiredBirds said:

 spec 350's for roundy roundy  make over 400 w/ iron heads and a 2bbl. Yes the LS is a beast but it is a points hit. of course I'd be doing a Trans Am not a Camaro...... 

Is that the same thing as saying your mullet is a Kentucky Waterfall vs. an Ape Drape? 

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33 minutes ago, hotchkis23 said:

Is that the same thing as saying your mullet is a Kentucky Waterfall vs. an Ape Drape? 

 

MULLET HAIKU

Oh brother squirrel,
Your tail, my hair. We are one.
Yet I must eat you.
 

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21 hours ago, TiredBirds said:

no need for a LS under the current "points" structure you could build a 400+HP 350 and still be way under 500 points. The initial cost of a Gen II F-Body is the hold up. Anything in decent shape is going to cost big bucks, Gen III's and Gen Iv's however can be found cheap in running/driving condition. 

 

Much easier and cheaper dollarwise to build reliable power with an LS however one will take a big swap hit even at the lowest HP level of 255hp in a heavy car. It does need some oiling help so it's not perfect.

 

About all of the older stuff is getting hard to find at a decent price. Especially for northerners. The circle track crowd has decimated the ranks of G bodies making even those somewhat difficult to find at a decent price short of buying an already raced roller with a dubious history of hitting things. Asking prices for something that actually runs and drives, on the street, are nuts.

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2 hours ago, Bandit said:

 

Much easier and cheaper dollarwise to build reliable power with an LS however one will take a big swap hit even at the lowest HP level of 255hp in a heavy car. It does need some oiling help so it's not perfect.

 

About all of the older stuff is getting hard to find at a decent price. Especially for northerners. The circle track crowd has decimated the ranks of G bodies making even those somewhat difficult to find at a decent price short of buying an already raced roller with a dubious history of hitting things. Asking prices for something that actually runs and drives, on the street, are nuts.

G-bodies are cheap here and some are in really good shape. You just have to find the one grandpa bought new in the late 80's. I did find a good looking 78 firebird at least until you looked under it.. wow sitting in a gravel driveway covered for 20+ years isn't great for the undercarriage. 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 12/26/2020 at 9:47 AM, Max said:

Do you still have/race the 280zx? Seems like it could be built to be a really good champcar considering the vpi and fuel. Thought you switched to an NC but it sounds like your still developing the 280? This requires pics. 

 

Better late then never:

 

 

PXL_20210121_160529719.MP.jpg

PXL_20210114_171348727.MP.jpg

PXL_20210114_171343765.MP.jpg

PXL_20210114_171337303.MP.jpg

 

Tried to start it yesterday, but didn't start. It has a CAS from  a Toyota, can't get it to work properly with megasquirt 2.

 

 

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1 hour ago, turbogrill said:

 

Better late then never:

 

 

PXL_20210121_160529719.MP.jpg

PXL_20210114_171348727.MP.jpg

PXL_20210114_171343765.MP.jpg

PXL_20210114_171337303.MP.jpg

 

Tried to start it yesterday, but didn't start. It has a CAS from  a Toyota, can't get it to work properly with megasquirt 2.

 

 

Haha awesome, thanks man.  Better late indeed. Totally forgot why this came up in this thread.  Too long, won't read. Love the car though, and the basset's seem to suit the car well.  When I was 18 I had a 79 280zx as a daily. This car is one of the lesser loved Nissan/Datsuns, but I sill like them. 

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12 minutes ago, Max said:

Haha awesome, thanks man.  Better late indeed. Totally forgot why this came up in this thread.  

Who cares, as long as I can show off my rust bucket.

 

12 minutes ago, Max said:

 When I was 18 I had a 79 280zx as a daily. 

That is pretty awesome!

 

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