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Tubular front subframe


Bandit
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Curious what the impetus for this is, especially since it is all of 10 points. Cheaper than camber plates. Some certain car need it?

 

It says "bolt on" so can one cut their frame off and stub a fabricated subframe on with bolts? I mean for my ride that would be cheaper pointswise and really allow some radical suspension work.

 

Also, for those that do not know, aftermarket subframes are available for 1st and 2nd gen Camaro's that allow the use of C6 front suspension.

 

Just in case someone needed a little extra incentive to build one of those.

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9 minutes ago, Bandit said:

Curious what the impetus for this is, especially since it is all of 10 points. Cheaper than camber plates. Some certain car need it?

 

It says "bolt on" so can one cut their frame off and stub a fabricated subframe on with bolts? I mean for my ride that would be cheaper pointswise and really allow some radical suspension work.

 

Also, for those that do not know, aftermarket subframes are available for 1st and 2nd gen Camaro's that allow the use of C6 front suspension.

 

Just in case someone needed a little extra incentive to build one of those.

If your subframe made you run different suspension elements you'd also have to pay 10pts a pop for those each.

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10 minutes ago, LuckyKid said:

If your subframe made you run different suspension elements you'd also have to pay 10pts a pop for those each.

So? For 80 points, including the sway bar, one has a C6 front suspension under their ride.

 

Artificially lowered VPI cars can swallow that without issue.

 

I'm more curious what made the BOD think 10 points for a front subframe was a good idea.

 

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Edited by Bandit
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1 minute ago, Bandit said:

So? For 80 points, including the sway bar, one has a C6 front suspension under their ride.

 

Artificially lowered VPI cars can swallow that without issue.

 

I'm more curious what made the BOD think 10 points for a front subframe was a good idea.

 

And you wouldn't even have to do that much if you didn't want to or didn't have the points to spare.  With a 10 point subframe you could move mounting points and optimize the geometry while reusing all the factory components.

 

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20 minutes ago, Bandit said:

So? For 80 points, including the sway bar, one has a C6 front suspension under their ride.

 

Artificially lowered VPI cars can swallow that without issue.

 

I'm more curious what made the BOD think 10 points for a front subframe was a good idea.

 

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It was most likely an elaborate scheme by the BOD to provide a points incentive for you to finish your car this decade and actually bring it to road america. Instead of questioning rules and impact of said rules from someone who has yet to race with the aforementioned rules.

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5 minutes ago, Mopar 4 Life said:


It was most likely an elaborate scheme by the BOD to provide a points incentive for you to finish your car this decade and actually bring it to road america. Instead of questioning rules and impact of said rules from someone who has yet to race with the aforementioned rules.

I see the welcoming committee has shown up.

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1 hour ago, Bandit said:

So? For 80 points, including the sway bar, one has a C6 front suspension under their ride.

 

Artificially lowered VPI cars can swallow that without issue.

 

I'm more curious what made the BOD think 10 points for a front subframe was a good idea.

 

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Some would call that a tubular frame/front clip rather then a bolt on subframe replacement...

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1 hour ago, Mopar 4 Life said:


It was most likely an elaborate scheme by the BOD to provide a points incentive for you to finish your car this decade and actually bring it to road america. Instead of questioning rules and impact of said rules from someone who has yet to race with the aforementioned rules.

giphy.gif

 

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1 hour ago, Bandit said:

So? For 80 points, including the sway bar, one has a C6 front suspension under their ride.

 

Artificially lowered VPI cars can swallow that without issue.

 

I'm more curious what made the BOD think 10 points for a front subframe was a good idea.

 

spacer.png

That seems like a helluva lot more than I interpret a "Tubular front sub-frame/K-member (bolt on only)" to be. That's part of a $6000 TCI IFS setup and I'm pretty sure that it doesn't "bolt on" to the chassis. 

 

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Just now, Snorman said:

That seems like a helluva lot more than I interpret a "Tubular front sub-frame/K-member (bolt on only)" to be. That's part of a $6000 TCI IFS setup and I'm pretty sure that it doesn't "bolt on" to the chassis. 

 

 

Wait, maybe this is just a strut bar?

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28 minutes ago, Snorman said:

That seems like a helluva lot more than I interpret a "Tubular front sub-frame/K-member (bolt on only)" to be. That's part of a $6000 TCI IFS setup and I'm pretty sure that it doesn't "bolt on" to the chassis. 

 

 

You could fab something similar and make it bolt on.  I built a sub-frame back in college for my VW to adapt a Triumph front suspension, and it bolts on.  Cost maybe 100 bucks.

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1 hour ago, Snorman said:

That seems like a helluva lot more than I interpret a "Tubular front sub-frame/K-member (bolt on only)" to be. That's part of a $6000 TCI IFS setup and I'm pretty sure that it doesn't "bolt on" to the chassis. 

 

Sure it does. There are four bolts holding it on. Camaro's have always been unibodies.

https://www.racingjunk.com/news/installing-a-new-front-subframe-on-a-67-71-f-body-part-1/

 

If they are not talking about a subframe then what are they talking about? It says subframe right in the rules.

 

*All of the Pro Touring stuff is vastly overpriced. Control arms from Speedway are about 20% of what Detroit Speed charges. The Speedway parts just aren't as pretty.

 

eta-Video showing the mounts under the car. 

 

Edited by Bandit
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2 hours ago, Bandit said:

Sure it does. There are four bolts holding it on. Camaro's have always been unibodies.

https://www.racingjunk.com/news/installing-a-new-front-subframe-on-a-67-71-f-body-part-1/

 

If they are not talking about a subframe then what are they talking about? It says subframe right in the rules.

 

*All of the Pro Touring stuff is vastly overpriced. Control arms from Speedway are about 20% of what Detroit Speed charges. The Speedway parts just aren't as pretty.

 

eta-Video showing the mounts under the car. 

 

I understand it to be the lower stay bar I have on the GTI. It goes between the lower control arm mounting bolts and adds support to the lower front end. I'll see if I have a picture of it, I have it on my build for 10 plus the upper strut braces at 10 each. I opted for the rear roll cage bar for the rear one and added that with the Aero mods.

IMG_20201129_154804153.jpg

Edited by Timothy G. Elliott
Added photo hard to see but under motor.
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A subframe is the part that bolts to the frame that typically holds the engine mounts and the steering rack.

 

The stock frame is still there.  Lemme see if I can find a pic....

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/HCMVDS1dERCdeWgY7

Edited by wvumtnbkr
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19 hours ago, Bandit said:

So? For 80 points, including the sway bar, one has a C6 front suspension under their ride.

 

Artificially lowered VPI cars can swallow that without issue.

 

I'm more curious what made the BOD think 10 points for a front subframe was a good idea.

 

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Yes, you can do a subframe swap.

 

Add up the swaybar, lower control arms, upper control arms, springs, spindle, steering rack, etc...  it might be doable for 80 pts.

 

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Seems in a unibody type car without a “frame” the cradle that holds engine and suspension would be “subframe”. Mustangs, early Camaro, RX7, etc. fox mustang and Camaro have a lot of options as these are popular. All the additional parts like control arms, rack and pinion, etc may cost to many points to be useful but if they utilized the original parts and just changed the geometry it may be worth it. 

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On 12/31/2020 at 12:31 PM, Bandit said:

Curious what the impetus for this is, especially since it is all of 10 points. Cheaper than camber plates. Some certain car need it?

 

It says "bolt on" so can one cut their frame off and stub a fabricated subframe on with bolts? I mean for my ride that would be cheaper pointswise and really allow some radical suspension work.

 

Also, for those that do not know, aftermarket subframes are available for 1st and 2nd gen Camaro's that allow the use of C6 front suspension.

 

Just in case someone needed a little extra incentive to build one of those.

You are on to one of the things that shoild

have never been allowed and that has not yet been fully exploited.   I know some pretty good fabricators have poo Ted put the the BOD that this is a something that could lead to some serious unintended consequences.   

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3 hours ago, JDChristianson said:

You are on to one of the things that shoild

have never been allowed and that has not yet been fully exploited.   I know some pretty good fabricators have pointed out to the BOD that this is a something that could lead to some serious unintended consequences.   

Seems a step towards tube chassis, which I don't think anyone really wants.

 

The extremely low point cost is what I find really baffling. 

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