turbogrill Posted January 11, 2021 Report Share Posted January 11, 2021 Hi, Are the e46s competitive now? Starting at 475 vpi it seems pretty high? Talked to someone that wanted to build one. I am sure they are great cars but might be difficult for our series? Are these numbers correct: Weight: 2650 lbs ready to race no driver (car still looks like a car) HP: 180whp with exhaust and tune (stock headers) 25 points left for suspensions, maybe a swaybar or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMoneyWasters Posted January 11, 2021 Report Share Posted January 11, 2021 Mine's not!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuaTTro Posted January 11, 2021 Report Share Posted January 11, 2021 33 minutes ago, turbogrill said: Weight: 2650 lbs ready to race no driver (car still looks like a car) HP: 180whp with exhaust and tune (stock headers) 25 points left for suspensions, maybe a swaybar or something. Same weight as my Audi, but has 50whp more than our car. We regularly place top 10 overall. Are they reliable? Can they run 2 hours on fuel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted January 11, 2021 Report Share Posted January 11, 2021 2019 championship was won by a e46. I'd say that's pretty competitive.... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Andrew D Johnson Posted January 11, 2021 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted January 11, 2021 Yes the E46 is very competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted January 11, 2021 Report Share Posted January 11, 2021 42 minutes ago, turbogrill said: Hi, Are the e46s competitive now? Starting at 475 vpi it seems pretty high? Talked to someone that wanted to build one. I am sure they are great cars but might be difficult for our series? Are these numbers correct: Weight: 2650 lbs ready to race no driver (car still looks like a car) HP: 180whp with exhaust and tune (stock headers) 25 points left for suspensions, maybe a swaybar or something. That is about where my car sits right now on weight and horsepower. Finished 5th at barber with like the 5th or 6th fastest lap time on Sunday. I'd say they SHOULD be competitive. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbogrill Posted January 11, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2021 1 minute ago, QuaTTro said: Same weight as my Audi, but has 50whp more than our car. We regularly place top 10 overall. Are they reliable? Can they run 2 hours on fuel? I think they are reliable and with 17gallons and 180whp 2hours should be fine. 1 minute ago, wvumtnbkr said: 2019 championship was won by a e46. I'd say that's pretty competitive.... got it, didn't know that. So it seems like one of those cars that are decent at everything but not a rocket that will dominate first half and then burst into flames. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted January 11, 2021 Report Share Posted January 11, 2021 1 minute ago, turbogrill said: I think they are reliable and with 17gallons and 180whp 2hours should be fine. got it, didn't know that. So it seems like one of those cars that are decent at everything but not a rocket that will dominate first half and then burst into flames. Yea, that sums it up nicely.... The only downside that I see is some parts during the initial build were more expensive than I would like. I didn't actually build an e46, but a team mate offered his up for free to build when I demolished our orig8nal car at Charlotte. I would have had about 3 to 4k more into the BMW than what I could build another swapped rx7 for, even though I had to BUY the rx7. Wheel bearings, suspension pieces, coolant aystem, all were just more expensive. The nice thing about them is that if you buy a good one in good shape, you may not NEED to replace all of those items right away (although, I would). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technical Advisory Committee Chris Huggins Posted January 11, 2021 Technical Advisory Committee Report Share Posted January 11, 2021 If you build one just keep an eye on the rear suspension. The upper arms like to pull out of the pockets (the spot welds break) - so weld those up nice The toe arms are weak stamped bits - so save some repurposed metal to reinforce them a bit the subframe mounts to the chassis are notoriously bad, plenty of fixes just gotta do it, which involves dropping the suspension and fuel tank. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grufton Posted January 11, 2021 Report Share Posted January 11, 2021 3 hours ago, turbogrill said: Hi, Starting at 475 vpi it seems pretty high? HP: 180whp with exhaust and tune (stock headers) E46 Starts at 450 pts for the 323 (which I believe was the most competitive example). As for the exhaust, I expect most use the E36/E39 manifold as allowed in the Tech Desk. I'm watching things closely given Dana's Bravo Flag video. That allowance seems a lot like one of the "internet things" that won't fly much longer. The unpublished transmission swap allowance is also getting renewed scrutiny. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbogrill Posted January 11, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2021 5 minutes ago, Grufton said: E46 Starts at 450 pts for the 323 (which I believe was the most competitive example). As for the exhaust, I expect most use the E36/E39 manifold as allowed in the Tech Desk. I'm watching things closely given Dana's Bravo Flag video. That allowance seems a lot like one of the "internet things" that won't fly much longer. The unpublished transmission swap allowance is also getting renewed scrutiny. Wouldn't the M54 be better? Seems to have more hp? (190 vs 160) Why would the E36 exhaust manifold be free? It's only free if you swap the engine in (Swapping an E36 engine into a E46) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetterhund Posted January 11, 2021 Report Share Posted January 11, 2021 35 minutes ago, turbogrill said: Wouldn't the M54 be better? Seems to have more hp? (190 vs 160) Why would the E36 exhaust manifold be free? It's only free if you swap the engine in (Swapping an E36 engine into a E46) The E46 manifold has the catalytic converter as an integral part of the manifold where the M50 and M52 manifolds do not. I don't think the manifold is the reason for the power improvement as much as going to dual VANOS and the addition of DISA, different factory tuning, etc. The stock BMW manifolds are pretty decent for a factory setup. So I am guessing the tech desk ruling was trying to give "parity" as other cars could remove the catalytic converter without getting charged points for a manifold swap, so they allow switching to the older OEM manifolds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbogrill Posted January 11, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2021 1 minute ago, Fetterhund said: The E46 manifold has the catalytic converter as an integral part of the manifold where the M50 and M52 manifolds do not. I don't think the manifold is the reason for the power improvement as much as going to dual VANOS and the addition of DISA, different factory tuning, etc. The stock BMW manifolds are pretty decent for a factory setup. So I am guessing the tech desk ruling was trying to give "parity" as other cars could remove the catalytic converter without getting charged points for a manifold swap, so they allow switching to the older OEM manifolds. thanks. Proves how difficult it is to make rules that are fair for everyone 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro H Posted January 12, 2021 Report Share Posted January 12, 2021 19 hours ago, Grufton said: E46 Starts at 450 pts for the 323 (which I believe was the most competitive example). As for the exhaust, I expect most use the E36/E39 manifold as allowed in the Tech Desk. I'm watching things closely given Dana's Bravo Flag video. That allowance seems a lot like one of the "internet things" that won't fly much longer. The unpublished transmission swap allowance is also getting renewed scrutiny. I'm intrigued by the e46 platform as well and think the 323 has its advantages over the 325. It seems like the 50 points allotted to the 323 (versus the 25 given to the 325) would come in handy to add in a limited slip diff (25 pts.), homemade fixed camber plates (5 pts.), and the left over 20 points could be used on material points for an oil pan baffle kit, which I've read are essential for the platform. I'm curious, do you all think the power advantage of the 325 is worth giving up on the additional 25 points given to the 323 for modifications? What would you use the points on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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