Are these bars too close?

[frankrehnelt]

[enginerd]

53 minutes ago, frankrehnelt said:

Per the rules, door bars, at the point where they weld to the main hoop and A-pillar, need to be not less than 6” apart. I will not make a guess as to why this is a rule. Perhaps adding a third bar at least 6” higher than the top bar would satisfy tech because then there would be the minimum of 2 bars with the separation (and then a third [not required] bar just on there as well)???

Edited January 11, 2021 by enginerd

[frankrehnelt]

E46 door latch makes it hard to put an added bar above. 

[TimS]

Remove it and add pull strap.  Easier than removing existing work.

[Ian]

1 hour ago, enginerd said:

Per the rules, door bars, at the point where they weld to the main hoop and A-pillar, need to be not less than 6” apart. I will not make a guess as to why this is a rule. Perhaps adding a third bar at least 6” higher than the top bar would satisfy tech because then there would be the minimum of 2 bars with the separation (and then a third [not required] bar just on there as well)???

 

There's a sill bar there, which can count as one of the door bars.  I can't see why that wouldn't pass tech as is.

 

[Gkuhn41]

I dont see why this wouldnt pass tech but  that said Get 2 bars from sill to door bars installed. 

[Rodger Coan-Burningham]

4 hours ago, frankrehnelt said:

E46 door latch

? 

[enginerd]

4 hours ago, Ian said:

 

There's a sill bar there, which can count as one of the door bars.  I can't see why that wouldn't pass tech as is.

 

Didn’t see the sill bar. I think that would probably pass.

[frankrehnelt]

8 hours ago, Burningham said:

? 

?What?

[Chris Huggins]

 

This seems like your simplest solution, depending on exact dimensions.

 

Door Bar Rules on gaps and placement:

 

A - The Upper and Lower "door bar" must have at least 6 inches of separation at the CENTERLINE of the tubing.  (thats 4.25 between bars for 1.75" tubing, if you want to cut a piece of 2x4 for a check)

B - The upper door bar must not be higher than the bottom of the drivers window opening

C - The lower edge of the upper door bar must not be higher than 10" from the door sill or the floor pan, whichever is higher, at any point along its length. 

 In this car its the door sill.  If the dimension IS greater than 10", a sill bar is required.

 

It looks like you meet B easily.

It looks like you MIGHT meet A, and if you do, no changes required.

It looks like you may NOT meet C, and if you don't, than you must meet A, or another bar is required, or you need to move the middle bar down some to meet A.

 

Regardless of what you have to do, the bars in my pic above are my personal recommendation and you will find a similar bar on my car (although I use rally style X bars)

 

 

 

[frankrehnelt]

We did this. 

[enginerd]

4 hours ago, Chris Huggins said:

 

This seems like your simplest solution, depending on exact dimensions.

 

Door Bar Rules on gaps and placement:

 

A - The Upper and Lower "door bar" must have at least 6 inches of separation at the CENTERLINE of the tubing.  (thats 4.25 between bars for 1.75" tubing, if you want to cut a piece of 2x4 for a check)

B - The upper door bar must not be higher than the bottom of the drivers window opening

C - The lower edge of the upper door bar must not be higher than 10" from the door sill or the floor pan, whichever is higher, at any point along its length. 

 In this car its the door sill.  If the dimension IS greater than 10", a sill bar is required.

 

It looks like you meet B easily.

It looks like you MIGHT meet A, and if you do, no changes required.

It looks like you may NOT meet C, and if you don't, than you must meet A, or another bar is required, or you need to move the middle bar down some to meet A.

 

Regardless of what you have to do, the bars in my pic above are my personal recommendation and you will find a similar bar on my car (although I use rally style X bars)

That isn’t what 3.2.3.1 says. Where is this information from? The rulebook mentions “open space” between bars when measured at centerline. I read this as “take a sphere w/ 6” diameter and pass it between the bars as a go gauge”.

 

3.2.3.1. The spacing between the fore and aft terminal ends of all door bars (including X-design) must include a separation of no less than six inches of open space when measured at the centerline of each bar. Triangulated bars that meet or join at the front hoop are allowed
so long as the spacing of the upper and lower bars (attached to the main hoop) is a minimum of six inches when measured at the centerline of the tubing bar.
3.2.3.2. The upper door bar shall not be placed higher than the bottom of the driver’s window.
3.2.3.3. If the distance, measured at any point between the highest portion of the door sill or floor pan (whichever is higher) and the lowest edge of lower door bar is greater than ten inches (10”), a floor or lower-sill intrusion bar (labeled “8”), mounted as low as possible on each side of the roll-cage, at or just above the door sill, joining the front vertical legs and the main hoop is required.

[wvumtnbkr]

5 hours ago, Chris Huggins said:

 

This seems like your simplest solution, depending on exact dimensions.

 

Door Bar Rules on gaps and placement:

 

A - The Upper and Lower "door bar" must have at least 6 inches of separation at the CENTERLINE of the tubing.  (thats 4.25 between bars for 1.75" tubing, if you want to cut a piece of 2x4 for a check)

B - The upper door bar must not be higher than the bottom of the drivers window opening

C - The lower edge of the upper door bar must not be higher than 10" from the door sill or the floor pan, whichever is higher, at any point along its length. 

 In this car its the door sill.  If the dimension IS greater than 10", a sill bar is required.

 

It looks like you meet B easily.

It looks like you MIGHT meet A, and if you do, no changes required.

It looks like you may NOT meet C, and if you don't, than you must meet A, or another bar is required, or you need to move the middle bar down some to meet A.

 

Regardless of what you have to do, the bars in my pic above are my personal recommendation and you will find a similar bar on my car (although I use rally style X bars)

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure that "c" just means that you need to have a sill bar If you bars are too high.  There is a sill bar here, so I'm not sure why it wouldn't be legal.

 

I agree the 2 vertical bars would be a good idea, but I do not believe they are necessary by the letter of the rule.

[wvumtnbkr]

1 hour ago, enginerd said:

That isn’t what 3.2.3.1 says. Where is this information from? The rulebook mentions “open space” between bars when measured at centerline. I read this as “take a sphere w/ 6” diameter and pass it between the bars as a go gauge”.

 

3.2.3.1. The spacing between the fore and aft terminal ends of all door bars (including X-design) must include a separation of no less than six inches of open space when measured at the centerline of each bar. Triangulated bars that meet or join at the front hoop are allowed
so long as the spacing of the upper and lower bars (attached to the main hoop) is a minimum of six inches when measured at the centerline of the tubing bar.
3.2.3.2. The upper door bar shall not be placed higher than the bottom of the driver’s window.
3.2.3.3. If the distance, measured at any point between the highest portion of the door sill or floor pan (whichever is higher) and the lowest edge of lower door bar is greater than ten inches (10”), a floor or lower-sill intrusion bar (labeled “8”), mounted as low as possible on each side of the roll-cage, at or just above the door sill, joining the front vertical legs and the main hoop is required.

I read it like chris as far as space between bars.  Otherwise, why include the word centerline?

[Bandit]

I recall there was a big discussion about this years ago and reading the rules as posted by Enginerd (Huggy)I see it as limiting the number of door bars. Meanwhile the rules also say you can run as many bars as you want between the A and B posts/in the driver's compartment.

 

Obviously with the variety of cars some have much more vertical area from the sill to the window than others so this seems problematic. On a Cutlass I want more than two door bars beyond the allowed sill bar while a Miata or Vette won't have room for more. Separation between the bars is needed for if they need to be cut, so I understand that requirement but the wording limits the total allowed.

Edited January 12, 2021 by Bandit