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2021 Road Atlanta Not-Quite 14-Hour Results, Video, and Images


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As a non-driving crew guy on the team who left that in the edit anticipating other feedback on the test day, I do appreciate the wider paddock's concern here instead focused on the tone/attitude in that moment.

I make my living working for a track and am also a devoted volunteer organizer for amateur road racing, so my first response to hearing from our driver that any exchange took place was to note that voicing displeasure toward the pit worker might not be the direct way to address the frustration of so many non-starter driving sessions. The driver is also on the forum so I can't speak for them, but we as a team can be expected to communicate concerns with the series personnel more tactfully in the future.

And, of course, some of this emotion might have been down to our rhythm just not being in sync with the way the Black Flag Alls came. We did not record all of the laps attempted/run that day and the video is just a rough cut but we did find it difficult to accomplish as much as we'd hoped for. After some mixed messaging regarding the morning's drivers meeting, start time, and non-present PA announcements, when the scheduled half-hour breaks later in the day seemed to immediately follow on from at least as much unscheduled closed-track time, I do think it's fair for the questions of "what leads to the timetable being arranged this way" and "should there be flexibility in the sessions for these circumstances" to be asked - again, from my perspective as a track/organization representative and as a team member.

These things said, I need some help identifying where others are observing wheelspin or a burnout in the pits; I don't believe our car did that around the 53-minute mark. The fact must also be noted that the overtake at 51 minutes was executed within view of the no-flag next station (7), past the incident for which the corner worker at 6 was showing yellow.

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Full disclosure here.  I'm the "driver in red".   Nothing that has been said here is wrong.  I'm not making excuses or looking for sympathy, but I am looking to be out in the open and not hi

During a FCY I was going through turn 10a/b and a safety trucked stopped. A worker got out and grabbed a pair of vice grips off the track, with a bare hand, and then immediately yelled and dropped the

Pretty rough weekend for the team as this car will have to get replaced.  Driver is sore but ok.  Full containment seat already in possession for the replacement car.     Pret

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2 minutes ago, Magical Trevor said:

The fact must also be noted that the overtake at 51 minutes was executed within view of the no-flag next station (7), past the incident for which the corner worker at 6 was showing yellow.

No it wasn't. You can't see the T7 flag stand from where he made that pass. It's up over the hill and the flagger is behind protective fence on the T6 side. He literally set up for and executed that pass just past the flag stand and the dead car on the grass 15' away. 

L3sxaF.jpg

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16 minutes ago, Magical Trevor said:


These things said, I need some help identifying where others are observing wheelspin or a burnout in the pits; I don't believe our car did that around the 53-minute mark.

You are correct. It was at 56:50 that the driver did the burnout. 53:00 is the time one poster flagged as the prelude to the burnout, showing the drivers’ prior actions/attitude. 

Edited by mcoppola
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CRX comes in about 19:20, the Mercury shortly after, and we go back and forth for about an hour. My team was about 20 laps down, so I was just having fun and trying to be patient in traffic. 
When the mercury passed me in turn 1 and pulled away from me up the hill I was like wtf 😂  (56:00ish)

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Is that the red Gen 2 RX7? If so, one of your drivers made an amazing save in front of me in T5 somewhere between 2:15-3:45. The car was way outside through turn 5 and started oversteering back toward the track. Then it just snapped back into a straight line and drove on like nothing happened. 

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1 hour ago, revvhappy said:

Is that the red Gen 2 RX7? If so, one of your drivers made an amazing save in front of me in T5 somewhere between 2:15-3:45. The car was way outside through turn 5 and started oversteering back toward the track. Then it just snapped back into a straight line and drove on like nothing happened. 

I have nothing yo do with that team, but I can tell you the picture posted above is a 2nd gen rx7.

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1 hour ago, revvhappy said:

Is that the red Gen 2 RX7? If so, one of your drivers made an amazing save in front of me in T5 somewhere between 2:15-3:45. The car was way outside through turn 5 and started oversteering back toward the track. Then it just snapped back into a straight line and drove on like nothing happened. 


It’s the convertible. There were 2 red 2nd gen rx7s that day. But it was probably us. That driver had a few incidents in that stint. 

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13 hours ago, Snorman said:

No it wasn't. You can't see the T7 flag stand from where he made that pass. It's up over the hill and the flagger is behind protective fence on the T6 side. He literally set up for and executed that pass just past the flag stand and the dead car on the grass 15' away. 

L3sxaF.jpg

 

I don't think you understand. This was not a pass under yellow. When the pass was executed, both cars were past the incident and flag station showing yellow. You don't have the right to judge what the driver could and couldn't see when you weren't there. The driver knows what he saw, nobody else. If the he saw a yellow at 7, he wouldn't have made the pass. 

The picture you show is also pretty far before the pass was made, when the pass was started the corner station was in even better view. 

This move to me looks completely fine, I would have done the exact same thing. 

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25 minutes ago, The Aero Man said:

 

I don't think you understand. This was not a pass under yellow. When the pass was executed, both cars were past the incident and flag station showing yellow. You don't have the right to judge what the driver could and couldn't see when you weren't there. The driver knows what he saw, nobody else. If the he saw a yellow at 7, he wouldn't have made the pass. 

The picture you show is also pretty far before the pass was made, when the pass was started the corner station was in even better view. 

This move to me looks completely fine, I would have done the exact same thing. 

I understand perfectly, but go ahead and mansplain it to me.

You can't see the flag stand from the bottom of the hill out of T6, particularly when passing on the inside. 

The picture wasn't "pretty far before the pass was made". It demonstrates he was, in fact, passing the other car without the T7 stand in view. 

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26 minutes ago, Snorman said:

I understand perfectly, but go ahead and mansplain it to me.

You can't see the flag stand from the bottom of the hill out of T6, particularly when passing on the inside. 

The picture wasn't "pretty far before the pass was made". It demonstrates he was, in fact, passing the other car without the T7 stand in view. 

 

I am thinking they moved turn 7 since you last drove there.  You need to quit missing these races, see all the stuff you miss?

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30 minutes ago, Burningham said:

 

I am thinking they moved turn 7 since you last drove there.  You need to quit missing these races, see all the stuff you miss?

Did they move it to the other side of the wall? 😄

They were showing a yellow out of the esses too. To me, during a test day, with flags at two consecutive stations, I would have taken the hint to just back off a little rather than try and send it around a Miata. 

WGSzdv.jpg

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Full disclosure here.  I'm the "driver in red".

 

Nothing that has been said here is wrong.  I'm not making excuses or looking for sympathy, but I am looking to be out in the open and not hide about my actions.  Eventually people would figure it out anyway.  No point in pretending it didn't happen.

 

Not my best work.  Through various things in my life, my sense of what is considered a raised voice or aggressive approach is vastly different than what some people feel is appropriate.  Sometimes it gets me in trouble and its a part of me that I don't like either.  Hind-sight is 20-20, all I can do is try to be better.

 

My apologies to the pit-out worker, it may not have been his direct issue, but he was the only portal available at the time.   FWIW, I did speak to Dana about it at the end of the day, but by then the day was over.

 

 

As far as the burnout, it was unrelated to my discussion with the pit marshall.  Rolling burnouts are just fun.  I try to be past the pit workers and not get the wheel hop, that one got a way from me a bit.

 

As far as the pass at T6, I saw the flag (at both T5 and T6), saw the stopped car, made the pass after the "incident".  I honestly don't remember if I could see T7 with no flag or not, but I could see that the track was clear and it appeared I was past the issue that brought out the flag.  It was also a very simple pass, neither car was at full speed at either T6 or T7.

 

And on that, I won't try to defend any further because those are my honest responses, I can't change what I did and I really don't like to pick fights.  Get back to me privately if you feel it merits further discussion as I would rather see this thread stay on topic about what was otherwise another great race.

 

Matt

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17 hours ago, MMiskoe said:

As far as the pass at T6, I saw the flag (at both T5 and T6), saw the stopped car, made the pass after the "incident".  I honestly don't remember if I could see T7 with no flag or not, but I could see that the track was clear and it appeared I was past the issue that brought out the flag.  It was also a very simple pass, neither car was at full speed at either T6 or T7.

You bring up a great point and have the same stance as many people I have talked to with this statement:

 

"it appeared I was past the issue that brought out the flag"

 

I contend that you must wait until you can see the next green flag and see that the track is clear before you get back to racing / passing. The flagger may be warning of 2 cars, not just one. You passed one car, there could be another car (involved in the incident which stranded the first) which is also a hazard. Your situation may not be the best example of what I'm talking about, but I figured it was a decent segue to soapbox.

 

I have video of a car at Indy see a yellow flag at pit in, see clear track ahead, and resume racing around a blind right onto the main straight where there was a stalled car against the wall on the right side. This driver did not wait for the next green flag station and assumed incorrectly that the hazard had been cleared or moved on. These situations exist and that's why I think it is imperative that you always wait until you can see clear track and see a green flag (or no flag) at a manned station before racing / passing again.

 

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41 minutes ago, enginerd said:

You bring up a great point and have the same stance as many people I have talked to with this statement:

 

"it appeared I was past the issue that brought out the flag"

 

I contend that you must wait until you can see the next green flag and see that the track is clear before you get back to racing / passing. The flagger may be warning of 2 cars, not just one. You passed one car, there could be another car (involved in the incident which stranded the first) which is also a hazard. Your situation may not be the best example of what I'm talking about, but I figured it was a decent segue to soapbox.

 

I have video of a car at Indy see a yellow flag at pit in, see clear track ahead, and resume racing around a blind right onto the main straight where there was a stalled car against the wall on the right side. This driver did not wait for the next green flag station and assumed incorrectly that the hazard had been cleared or moved on. These situations exist and that's why I think it is imperative that you always wait until you can see clear track and see a green flag (or no flag) at a manned station before racing / passing again.

 

I just looked and I can't find anything in the BCCR on when it is ok to pass a car after passing a yellow station. As I recall I believe at the drivers meeting is when we were told that it is after you pass the next green flag station. So not untill you clear the next green station. Then go racing again. If I am correct this should be written in the BCCR somewhere to eliminate any self interpretations. I've heard many drivers say that it was as soon as you see the next green station, if it's one or the other it should be written as such in our rules.

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4 minutes ago, Magical Trevor said:

Covered here (24:00): 

 

 

I still think it's a good idea to have this written into the rules, and it's as I remember 1 no passing if you see a yellow. 2 No passing till after the incident. 3 and only after you can see the next green station. This gives local drivers a bit of an advantage as they know where the stations are, but can also be a black flag problem for them as the corners don't always know the series rules and can call in anyone the see or think passed too early. Having it written and explained to workers would help all. And yes I do flag quite a bit at Road America, another thing to keep in mind the corner with a waving yellow is pretty busy at that time and may not see a pass under there yellow, yet one before or after may, though not know exactly where it was. Personally I think I would prefer it not be allowed until past the next green station.

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On 2/9/2021 at 8:39 AM, roadracer4life said:

Weather in the south is such a crap shoot. Friday was beautiful weather and Sunday was beautiful also but that damn Saturday is was a bugger. Personally I did not have an issue with the large group of cars. I enjoyed the opportunity to race with so many cars even the Miata's. Those Miata's are like a pack of Tasmanian devils and I'm just doing my best job to avoid them.  Our test session was not without mishap as our oil cooler decided to randomly spring a leak and that was 200 unexpected dollars spent then one of our drivers with 2 laps of experience at Road Atlanta added to the asphalt art up turn 5 and pancaked the passenger side on the car. Luck for us the car was so ugly before it was barely noticeable. Our race started out strong and we moved up from 56th overall at the start to 25th in just the first 25 laps of the race including all the yellows and full course black flag. During the race 2 of the 4 nuts and studs that hold our turbo on decided to depart this world so we did a quick fix. 

 

171402170.fRhGuNMK.jpg

 

 

I'll give it to the vice grip company these pliers held on for almost 2 hours before they fell off and potentially ruined someone's radiator behind us. 

 

171402169.rWCOtZlX.jpg

 

Considering all the attempts by our Swedish steed to keep us from finishing we finished which was a huge victory for us. We felt privileged to be pit mates with Race winning Cone Crushers and Rocket Ham and Flying Moose. I thought everyone was friendly and I hope I don't have to wait in that tech inspection line again for another year. 

 

-Sam

 

 

I am sure that running with a turbo you have learned that you can’t just go buy fasteners at the hardware store and expect them to live. After living through the Mack actuator flange bolt debacle of 2002, we made the investment and now we are probably the most capable group at high temp bolted joint analysis not in aerospace. We have learned a lot about what it takes to keep turbo bolts from falling out.

 

If your car uses M8 studs, try GM 11609953. It is a very high quality A286 stud with a nice locking thread and low friction coating, it is still affordable because they make millions and millions of them. I repurposed this stud on a somewhat different Volvo application, 13L turbo compound engine for big trucks, it will be the highest efficiency turbo yet produced for over the road trucks.

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5 hours ago, Bremsen said:

Search for "turbo locking tabs" to keep nuts on turbo studs.

I helped troubleshoot a turbocharger fastener issue on a ChumpCar several years back. The TLDR version is that no matter how well locked / safety wired the nuts and bolts are, and how many times you retorque them, if they are made from the wrong type of material they won’t work. mhr650 is right, you need high temp A286 fasteners or similar.

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1 hour ago, enginerd said:

I helped troubleshoot a turbocharger fastener issue on a ChimpCar several years back. The TLDR version is that no matter how well locked / safety wired the nuts and bolts are, and how many times you retorque them, if they are made from the wrong type of material they won’t work. mhr650 is right, you need high temp A286 fasteners or similar.

 

Oh, I agree with that as well.  But even with proper fasteners torqued to spec ours backed off anyway.  YMMV, but I'd still recommend an additional fail safe such as safety wire, tabs, etc.

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