K24 - too good to be true?

[Snorman 2,891]

I just want to correct some comments regarding the '94-'95 Cobra VPI. It was increased by 25 points for 2021. This was down from the original 50 point increase it got. There were also some adjustments made to other Mustangs. 

[Snorman 2,891]

5 hours ago, Cam Benty said:

C.C. got walked at Daytona by the Altima is true. A rain shortened race and the Altima came from a lap down to win. 

Correct. We were unable to compete with the FWD Altima in the heavy rain. And the car is very fast. 

I think we'll get a crack at it this year, and hopefully a race with no rain. 

We've had to make some adjustments to the car for 2021 due to the 25 point VPI increase. We'll know in a few weeks how they worked. 

[67Mustang 306]

19 hours ago, Cam Benty said:

One does not need to make big changes to an Explorer motor (or cobra motor. The Explorer motor has the worst exhaust manifold ever on a road car). In the NHRA Stock eliminator racers are producing 300 hp + to the wheels from stock E7 headed motors with cam, springs and headers. C.C. got walked at Daytona by the Altima is true. A rain shortened race and the Altima came from a lap down to win. And the Cobra gets 50 points. It would be interesting to hear the reasoning for this circumstance. 

 

 

A hair dryer wakes up the 2 lay Zee. This would be fun!!!

 

 

 

Paul, are ya still overseas? Been working some potential Jack up rig repowers in that neck of the woods lately.

[Cam Benty 825]

Check your mail. I just saw the 50 point increase for the Fox Mustang. When did this increase get administered? 

 

2 hours ago, 67Mustang said:

Paul, are ya still overseas? Been working some potential Jack up rig repowers in that neck of the woods lately.

 

[67Mustang 306]

I missed the 50 pts for the Fox.  I saw something about the Cobra but missed the Fox hosiery....

[Bandit 1,651]

3 hours ago, Cam Benty said:

Check your mail. I just saw the 50 point increase for the Fox Mustang. When did this increase get administered? 

 

 

Nothing in red on the vpi list for the Fox Stangs. Were they not 225 previously?

 

If the Fox Stangs got bumped someone really doesn't like you Ford guys.

[Ron_e 4,851]

10 minutes ago, Bandit said:

Nothing in red on the vpi list for the Fox Stangs. Were they not 225 previously?

 

If the Fox Stangs got bumped someone really doesn't like you Ford guys.

 

200, they were obviously winning too much and needed to be reigned in by three laps.

Edited February 15 by Ron_e

[Dimsun Racing 199]

I don't know why more people don't look at the J30 swap. (200hp) 350 lbs.

This car won 4 races in a row in 2017. It had 456 points. Car was 2250 lbs.

The weak link was the stock Z trans, and it's getting harder to find one that's not already worn out.

I'm working on an adapter to go to a T5 Borg Warner. And the next build will be a Z32 J32 because the West Coast series has some speed creep and the J30 is no longer competitive.

Didn't save any weight going from the stock L28 to the J30 even though it went from iron block to alum block, but it got the weight back to where the car was 50/50.

These engines are all over the salvage yards including PickandPull. CarPart shows dozens for $100. All the Honda V6 cars in the early 2000's had auto trans failure but the engines last forever.

It totally changed the dynamics of the 280Z, no more messing with the engine between races and a ton of torque. The L28 would need an oil change every race and it would be black, but the J30 would go 2 races easy. 8 races and all it ever needed was an oil change.

Of all the aluminum Japanese V6's of the era the J30 was the smallest, lightest and cheapest. It's 4" narrower than any of them because it's the only SOHC. And Honda has the valve train engineering to make the SOHC just as good as a DOHC.

Edited February 20 by Dimsun Racing

[Cam Benty 825]

 

On 2/14/2021 at 3:48 PM, 67Mustang said:

I missed the 50 pts for the Fox.  I saw something about the Cobra but missed the Fox hosiery....

200 to 225 for the Fox Mustang. 250 to 300 for the 93 Cobra. 95 cobra 300 to 325. 
 

10 wins for the Miata, 6 for the E30 and 4 for the Cobra’s. Go figure why there was an increase. 

 

 

On 2/14/2021 at 6:32 PM, Bandit said:

Nothing in red on the vpi list for the Fox Stangs. Were they not 225 previously?

 

If the Fox Stangs got bumped someone really doesn't like you Ford guys.

Indeed. Read below.

 

On 2/14/2021 at 6:41 PM, Ron_e said:

 

200, they were obviously winning too much and needed to be reigned in by three laps.

I think I found some of the 5 laps. If our new socialist governments ever release us from involuntary lock down we will get your race in. I am in conversation with Tech trying to get a clear reason for the increases as we speak. I will fill you in soon. Hopefully this new administration will not practice the same favoritism as the previous crew. I think we may have a sporting chance. 

[turbogrill 503]

5 hours ago, Dimsun Racing said:

I don't know why more people don't look at the J30 swap. (200hp) 350 lbs.

This car won 4 races in a row in 2017. It had 456 points. Car was 2250 lbs.

The weak link was the stock Z trans, and it's getting harder to find one that's not already worn out.

I'm working on an adapter to go to a T5 Borg Warner. And the next build will be a Z32 J32 because the West Coast series has some speed creep and the J30 is no longer competitive.

Didn't save any weight going from the stock L28 to the J30 even though it went from iron block to alum block, but it got the weight back to where the car was 50/50.

These engines are all over the salvage yards including PickandPull. CarPart shows dozens for $100. All the Honda V6 cars in the early 2000's had auto trans failure but the engines last forever.

It totally changed the dynamics of the 280Z, no more messing with the engine between races and a ton of torque. The L28 would need an oil change every race and it would be black, but the J30 would go 2 races easy. 8 races and all it ever needed was an oil change.

Of all the aluminum Japanese V6's of the era the J30 was the smallest, lightest and cheapest. It's 4" narrower than any of them because it's the only SOHC. And Honda has the valve train engineering to make the SOHC just as good as a DOHC.

 

This is awesome.

 

What transmission are you using for the J30? Is this the J30A1?

 

The J35A1 works for the 280zx swap weight but couldn't figure out a rwd conversion. Also don't know how to get more power, no aftermarket.

 

Surprised you didn't loose any weight?

 

What J32 works in the swap? Why not a K? 220whp from a 200hp with headers and intake. Cost?

 

As for the Z transmission I am using a KA24 tranny with L28 bellhousing, super easy and cheap. I destroyed 3 Z transmissions (1 4spd and 2 5spd).

 

Your car looks very cool, is it fast?

Edited February 21 by turbogrill

[Dimsun Racing 199]

On 2/20/2021 at 7:44 PM, turbogrill said:

 

This is awesome.

 

What transmission are you using for the J30? Is this the J30A1?

 

The J35A1 works for the 280zx swap weight but couldn't figure out a rwd conversion. Also don't know how to get more power, no aftermarket.

 

Surprised you didn't loose any weight?

 

What J32 works in the swap? Why not a K? 220whp from a 200hp with headers and intake. Cost?

 

As for the Z transmission I am using a KA24 tranny with L28 bellhousing, super easy and cheap. I destroyed 3 Z transmissions (1 4spd and 2 5spd).

 

Your car looks very cool, is it fast?

I sold the J30A1 swap to a guy with an S13, he's using a S14 5 speed

 

The Z32 (2nd gen 300zx) I'm building now will have a  J32A2 with  a BorgWarner T5 (Tremec). This build is for the West coast series, there's a few LS swaps already and a couple of EVO's so it will be doing good if it runs in the front. The J32 is from an Acura CL type S, from 2000 to 2003, before they went to electric throttle. There's a guy in NY state that mods the stock ECU, he disables the immobilizer and A/T circuits. For $100 you don't have to run a programmable ECU.

 

The numbers in the Honda engine designation tell you the displacement. J30 3 liter, J32 3.2 liter, J35 3.5 liter, etc.

 

I don't think you could do a J32 in a Z or a ZX in Champcar, it would put you way over on points. The J30 is 200hp, the J32 is 260-270hp. And the stock Z32 has 475 points. That's if things haven't changed with the swap formula because I ran it about a year ago.

 

The J series are way more beefy (heavy built) than the L series, it's got cross bolted mains and the crank is heavier. The L engines will break cranks when you pump them up. But the aluminum block makes it even out. Both the J and L engines weigh right at 350 lbs. The best thing it did was get the weight balance to 50/50, if you look at the pic the entire engine is behind the front axle centerline. The stock engine setup is nose heavy, it makes the car tail happy.

 

I picked the engine and trans based on availability at the local Picknpulls because that's the best price. There's way more of the J engine and T5 than the K engines/trans. That and the bigger displacement and other options for the future J35, J37, they all have similar bolt up.

 

Yes it's fast....in 2016/2017    Oregon Raceway Park (L.D.) 1st place A class, Laguna Seca Chumpcar 1st place, Sonoma Chumpcar 1st place, The Ridge Motorsport Park (L.D.) 1st place A class.  Speed creep happened though, we got beat in the championship by a Fox body Mustang with a 302 with aluminum heads, they were also running sticky tires and changed them during the race.

 

 

Edited February 23 by Dimsun Racing

[Dimsun Racing 199]

On 2/20/2021 at 7:44 PM, turbogrill said:

Your car looks very cool, is it fast?

This was the Thursday race with Chumpcar Nov 2016 at Laguna Seca. The video is from the CYR BMW with the IMSA pro driver Misha Goikhberg and Thomas Micich in the white J30 Z. The action starts around 6:20.

 

We DNF'd this race in one of the later stints when the clutch started slipping. We won the next day with Misha driving one of the stints.

 

[mhr650 1,319]

8 hours ago, Dimsun Racing said:

I sold the J30A1 swap to a guy with an S13, he's using a S14 5 speed

 

The Z32 (2nd gen 300zx) I'm building now will have a  J32A2 with  a BorgWarner T5 (Tremec). This build is for the West coast series, there's a few LS swaps already and a couple of EVO's so it will be doing good if it runs in the front. The J32 is from an Acura CL type S, from 2000 to 2003, before they went to electric throttle. There's a guy in NY state that mods the stock ECU, he disables the immobilizer and A/T circuits. For $100 you don't have to run a programmable ECU.

 

The numbers in the Honda engine designation tell you the displacement. J30 3 liter, J32 3.2 liter, J35 3.5 liter, etc.

 

I don't think you could do a J32 in a Z or a ZX in Champcar, it would put you way over on points. The J30 is 200hp, the J32 is 260-270hp. And the stock Z32 has 475 points. That's if things haven't changed with the swap formula because I ran it about a year ago.

 

The J series are way more beefy (heavy built) than the L series, it's got cross bolted mains and the crank is heavier. The L engines will break cranks when you pump them up. But the aluminum block makes it even out. Both the J and L engines weigh right at 350 lbs. The best thing it did was get the weight balance to 50/50, if you look at the pic the entire engine is behind the front axle centerline. The stock engine setup is nose heavy, it makes the car tail happy.

 

I picked the engine and trans based on availability at the local Picknpulls because that's the best price. There's way more of the J engine and T5 than the K engines/trans. That and the bigger displacement and other options for the future J35, J37, they all have similar bolt up.

 

Yes it's fast....in 2016/2017    Oregon Raceway Park (L.D.) 1st place A class, Laguna Seca Chumpcar 1st place, Sonoma Chumpcar 1st place, The Ridge Motorsport Park (L.D.) 1st place A class.  Speed creep happened though, we got beat in the championship by a Fox body Mustang with a 302 with aluminum heads, they were also running sticky tires and changed them during the race.

 

 

 

True about that 3.2 Acura engine being a beast. A few years ago, I was going to Ohio 5-6 times a year working on a turbo 6 cylinder with Honda until Japan canceled the program. All of their testing was done with that engine, and they use them in all of their special projects. The chief engineer on that program had an NSX that was a left over works Le Mans chassis, they built it into a Pikes Peak car with a turbo 3.2. it was a fast car, but it didn’t help that Peugeot decided to enter his same class and set what was the all-time record at the time…

[turbogrill 503]

10 hours ago, Dimsun Racing said:

I sold the J30A1 swap to a guy with an S13, he's using a S14 5 speed

 

The Z32 (2nd gen 300zx) I'm building now will have a  J32A2 with  a BorgWarner T5 (Tremec). This build is for the West coast series, there's a few LS swaps already and a couple of EVO's so it will be doing good if it runs in the front. The J32 is from an Acura CL type S, from 2000 to 2003, before they went to electric throttle. There's a guy in NY state that mods the stock ECU, he disables the immobilizer and A/T circuits. For $100 you don't have to run a programmable ECU.

 

The numbers in the Honda engine designation tell you the displacement. J30 3 liter, J32 3.2 liter, J35 3.5 liter, etc.

 

I don't think you could do a J32 in a Z or a ZX in Champcar, it would put you way over on points. The J30 is 200hp, the J32 is 260-270hp. And the stock Z32 has 475 points. That's if things haven't changed with the swap formula because I ran it about a year ago.

 

The J series are way more beefy (heavy built) than the L series, it's got cross bolted mains and the crank is heavier. The L engines will break cranks when you pump them up. But the aluminum block makes it even out. Both the J and L engines weigh right at 350 lbs. The best thing it did was get the weight balance to 50/50, if you look at the pic the entire engine is behind the front axle centerline. The stock engine setup is nose heavy, it makes the car tail happy.

 

I picked the engine and trans based on availability at the local Picknpulls because that's the best price. There's way more of the J engine and T5 than the K engines/trans. That and the bigger displacement and other options for the future J35, J37, they all have similar bolt up.

 

Yes it's fast....in 2016/2017    Oregon Raceway Park (L.D.) 1st place A class, Laguna Seca Chumpcar 1st place, Sonoma Chumpcar 1st place, The Ridge Motorsport Park (L.D.) 1st place A class.  Speed creep happened though, we got beat in the championship by a Fox body Mustang with a 302 with aluminum heads, they were also running sticky tires and changed them during the race.

 

 

 

What a cool car.

 

How do you mate the transmissions? I assume neither the T5 or the S14 transmission makes it easy? How hard is the FWD to RWD conversion. Intake seems to be facing the wrong way, did you use the stock pan? It looks tiny in that engine bay, did it clear the steering rack?

 

The J35A1 is 210hp, that works for 280zx. Curious what intake and header could do to it, can you tune these ECUs?

 

 

edit:

It seems to fit a NA/NB miata, https://storage.googleapis.com/wzukusers/user-34892593/documents/5dd7e0c15de61iVBShaN/JV6 MIATA MANUAL.pdf

 

Curious if someone could make it fit for the NC, that transmission is decent.

 

 

Edited February 23 by turbogrill

[chbright 86]

On 2/20/2021 at 5:01 PM, Dimsun Racing said:

 

The weak link was the stock Z trans, and it's getting harder to find one that's not already worn out.

I'm working on an adapter to go to a T5 Borg Warner. And the next build will be a Z32 J32 because the West Coast series has some speed creep and the J30 is no longer competitive.

 

 

 

 

if I might ask, why go with the t5 vs RS5R30A already from the z32? I know the RS5R30A had some synchro wear/issues, but thats been solved (via rebuild on the high milers). plus its pretty bomb proof.

[Snorman 2,891]

5 minutes ago, chbright said:

 

if I might ask, why go with the t5 vs RS5R30A already from the z32? I know the RS5R30A had some synchro wear/issues, but thats been solved (via rebuild on the high milers). plus its pretty bomb proof.

The OE Z32 trans was a constant source of pain for us when we raced our '90 300Z. KSR had constant issues with the Z32 trans in their car as well. 

The soft syncros and baulk ring clips (which were pretty much almost impossible to find) were a constant source of failure and we were routinely tearing down trannies to rebuild them. 

[Dimsun Racing 199]

9 hours ago, turbogrill said:

How do you mate the transmissions? I assume neither the T5 or the S14 transmission makes it easy? How hard is the FWD to RWD conversion. Intake seems to be facing the wrong way, did you use the stock pan? It looks tiny in that engine bay, did it clear the steering rack?

 

The J35A1 is 210hp, that works for 280zx. Curious what intake and header could do to it, can you tune these ECUs?

 

Curious if someone could make it fit for the NC, that transmission is decent.

 

There's a 1/2" aluminum adapter plate, bolted to the engine with four countersunk flathead allen bolts. Four other bolts come from the engine side and thread into the plate. The Trans bolts are the same way, some from the trans side and some from the engine side. All the threaded holes in the plate have steel timeserts. The hard part is getting the locator dowels precise so everything is centered. You can just transfer punch the engine locator dowels in the plate after the plate is bolted to the engine, the alignment doesn't happen there. When you drill the trans locator dowels in the plate you have to be precise. I put a dial gauge on the trans input shaft and then jammed it in the front trans cover with shims to lock it in a centered position. Then mounted the engine vertically on the engine stand  and set the trans on the plate with input shaft into the crank pilot bearing and transfer punched the trans locator dowel holes into the adapter plate.  I was going to make a aluminum locator rod that fits inside the trans front cover T/O bearing snout and the other end in the crank pilot bearing  but the snout was not centered. Most trans have a lot of input shaft play when the pilot end is not in the crank pilot bearing. The first trans I located was off center and it burned up the input bearing by the end of the first race.

 

The best way to locate the trans dowels would be to measure locations with a CNC mill but that's sort of beyond the "budget" of a Champcar swap. Another way would be to lathe turn an aluminum shaft that precisely fit in the case bore of the front trans bearing and reached to the crank pilot bearing at the other end. Also beyond the scope of "budget"

 

Then there's a flywheel spacer where it bolts to the crank to get the flywheel back towards the trans the same distance as the adapter plate. The starter comes from the trans side through a hole cut in the bell housing, it bolts to the plate. The T/O bearing carrier is also longer, it's made from 2 carriers cut and welded together.

 

When picking a trans you have to hope that none of the engine/trans holes align with each other, otherwise they would have to align precisely which can't be expected. To avoid this you can clock the trans away from vertical a little but not much. I just got lucky with both the early Z trans and the Mustang T5 bell housing. You could probably sacrifice 1 bolt in some cases since the Japanese overbuild their drivetrains.

 

The starter gap/hole in the bell housing looks suspect but it works as tested over 8 races. If you look at a bellhousing for a G50 transaxle out of a turbo Porsche it has even more holes so I based it off that. And there were no bolts eliminated. The gap/hole is between bolts.

 

The J swap in the Miata brings the starter from the engine side centered on the bottom. This requires a clearance bump in the oil pan, it also reduces ground clearance. I didn't want to have to weld the pan since it's really thick aluminum. The Miata swap uses a steel scratch built pan which loses some engine cooling because the aluminum pan transfers a lot of heat.

 

The intake is symmetrical, it flips 180 deg no problem you just have to drill and plug the EGR port. The radiator cooling pipes can be done 2 ways. You can leave the T-stat housing at the back in which case you have to pipe both inlet and outlet up the sides of the fender wells. That's how the 280 was done, you can see the black 1-1/4" pipes in the picture. It's difficult though I had to build another t-stat housing top so the outlet would point straight sideways and I had to build a clearance bubble in the firewall. Which BTW the starter also has a clearance bubble on the pass floorboard/tunnel area.

 

The other way is cleaner and doesn't require the firewall bump, and is what I'm doing on the J32 Z32 swap. That's to plumb the 2 rear head coolant outlets into a 2-1 pipe and run it down the center under the plenum. The other coolant pipe takes a u-turn from behind the water pump under the plenum. Then the T-stat housing gets located to the front.

 

I used the stock cast iron headers, they are pretty small so not much weight savings possible. It's actually 2 front headers because they point better. There's China stainless headers on Ebay for cheap but they might need rewelding, and they might not point optimally since they are for transverse bolt up. You could get it to work you would just have to bend the exhaust right out of the header.

 

The engine mounts were built from stock Z mounts modified using existing threaded holes in the block, like A/C compressor brkt holes and existing engine mount holes. It also required modded mounts on the chassis because they are further back from stock.

 

Don't know about tuning stock ECU's but I think it's been done with a piggyback system. The stock ECU with immobilizer and AT circuits eliminated worked for me. The J35 would be nice, it has a lot of torque and probably a wider powerband.

 

It all seems like a lot of work but the tradeoff was worth it. Very reliable, more power, no more searching for antique Z engines which are getting harder to find. No more time spent getting back to square one after every race, more time spent on improving other stuff like handling.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 24 by Dimsun Racing

[Dimsun Racing 199]

5 hours ago, chbright said:

 

if I might ask, why go with the t5 vs RS5R30A already from the z32? I know the RS5R30A had some synchro wear/issues, but thats been solved (via rebuild on the high milers). plus its pretty bomb proof.

The T5 is much more common in the pick-n-pulls. PnP has a flat rate on all parts, engines are $150 and trans are $115. Most them have at least one 5 speed Mustang, the one near my house had three. You virtually never see a Z32 at a pick-n-pull. The T5 is the most common 5 speed in the world, there's a ton of aftermarket parts, you can get numerous different gear ratios. And the Z32 that I found for cheap after 3 months searching came with an AT.

[wvumtnbkr 7,318]

There is a t5 in v6 camaro too.  The 97 through 02 trans is a world class.  That's what I run in my 3500 swapped rx7.

[Dimsun Racing 199]

10 minutes ago, wvumtnbkr said:

There is a t5 in v6 camaro too.  The 97 through 02 trans is a world class.  That's what I run in my 3500 swapped rx7.

Yeah, and the internals swap between brands as long as they are close to the same years.

[wvumtnbkr 7,318]

58 minutes ago, Dimsun Racing said:

Yeah, and the internals swap between brands as long as they are close to the same years.

 Yep.  The camaro trans I mentioned actually has a Ford pattern for the gearbox.  Has a c hevy output shaft.

 

I was in the car after misha in that clip above.  We won day 1.  You guys won day two iirc.

[Dimsun Racing 199]

1 hour ago, wvumtnbkr said:

I was in the car after misha in that clip above.  We won day 1.  You guys won day two iirc.

yep

Edited February 24 by Dimsun Racing