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Window net rule.


Snorman
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This is the 2020 window net rule, word for word. 

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3.5.1. All competition cars must have an SFI-approved window net mounted to the cage of the car only. All window nets must cover the window opening such that a driver’s hand or arm cannot extend outside the vertical plane between the a- and b-pillars, or (for open cars) the a-pillar and the main hoop of the roll cage while the driver is seated and belted in-place. Cars with nets that have extensive openings, as defined solely by ChampCar officials, will NOT be allowed on track.

This is the 2021 window net rule, word for word. 

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3.5.1. All competition cars must have an SFI-approved window net mounted to the cage of the car only. All window nets must cover the window opening such that a driver’s hand or arm cannot extend outside the vertical plane between the a- and b-pillars, or (for open cars) the a-pillar and the main hoop of the roll cage while the driver is seated and belted in-place. Cars with nets that have extensive openings, as defined solely by ChampCar officials, will NOT be allowed on track.

Can somebody explain if there is a difference between 2020 and 2021? 

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Seems like teams used to be able to break the rule before and now that is not allowed.

I know we were illegal since I would give a thumbs up out a crack in between the window net and the quarter window to corner workers at various times.

I just bought a new window net too, now I bought yet another window net that is a little bigger.

It should also be noted that the quarter window allowance is very small.  I took out our Spec miata ones a while back to make larger ones per the rules.  When I was done the new windows were actually smaller, lol.   On bigger cars that little strip of lexan won't do a whole lot.

Edited by LuckyKid
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8 minutes ago, LuckyKid said:

I know we were illegal since I would give a thumbs up out a crack in between the window net and the quarter window to corner workers at various times.

The BCCR states that the driver's "hand or arm cannot extend outside" when "the driver is seated and belted in-place". It doesn't say "fingernails". 

Is this something that is now, without any formal announcement by the series (other than the "media guy" telling people on FB), being reinforced differently when the rule hasn't changed? 

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I think your getting wound up over nothing man.  

The use of the word “fingernails” in that FB post was likely not the right choice of language.  You can stick a couple fingers out through the middle of most window nets, so that kind of defeats the logic of that wording. 

 

I doubt tech is going to fail you if you can get half a finger out the window net.  But if you can get your full hand out the window, yes they should say something. 
 

That being said, I agree with the sediment of that post. There are many cars that I’ve seen with horribly installed window nets. Sloppy and loose as all hell.  

Edited by petawawarace
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Standing next to tech at RA and watching the cars come through the main issue was when the window net did not come forward enough. I saw a bunch that were like 6-10" behind the steering wheel, so like only half the window was actually covered and if the driver reached forward the window net would end around their elbow area. I think that is the real issue. I wish I took some pictures because it was obvious when it was installed way to far back.

 

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and for those that don't do the book of faces...

Posted by Bill Strong February 13, 2021 at 5:47pm 

I see guys struggle with the window net rule in ChampCar.
Make that net as tight as you can. It helps with aero. Good aero makes for better top speed and more MPGs which makes for more laps between fuel stops. You know when tech complains that your net does go far enough forward which allows your fingernails to exit the window in a rollover event? Use Lexan or clear polycarbonate to fill in the gap where your window trim or rear view mirror used to be.
Remember, per the BCCR 3.5.1.2. You are allowed 80 square inches of material there for free.
It's also a good place to put a NACA duct to feed cooling air to your driver.
 
nascarnet.jpg
 

So Mustang guys. When you have a complaint, it's really good to give the whole story, with references to what you are talking about.
The tech inspectors wanted me to add...
 
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You should post a picture of the in car view on how NASCAR window nets go as far as the steering wheel. Those nets are awesome! Also some NASCAR vehicles use a vent net along with the window net.
And if teams do not want to add the vent window due to vision issue with there side mirror arm restraints could be a solution.


 

 

The reason for the post was that some teams could easily fix their net issues with adding a small bit of triangle polycarbonate to where their used to be a rear view mirror bracket triangle.
 
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Engineers seem to want instructions on how to make a car. Car builders for the most part seem to come up with some really good solutions to interpretation issues. 
Think outside that box. That's what makes ChampCar fun!

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Just now, Bill Strong said:

Engineers seem to want instructions on how to make a car. Car builders for the most part seem to come up with some really good solutions to interpretation issues. 
Think outside that box. That's what makes ChampCar fun!

No thank you. I don't appreciate getting to tech and being told someone's 'opinion' is now considered a rule, and I have to fix it.

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BCCR Update and Petition Process:

  • The Basic Club and Competition Rules (BCCR) shall be updated annually and released to the membership on 1 September of every year.
  • The updated BCCR, released on 1 September, shall take full effect on 1 January of the following year, thereby providing a minimum of 4 months' notice and action time for any change.
  • The membership may petition the Board of Directors for amendments to the BCCR, under the following guidelines and requirements: See the form for more

Click this link to start the petition process: https://forms.gle/697GnpBnmaHBVwLDA

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1 hour ago, mindspin311 said:

"Cars with nets that have extensive openings, as defined solely by ChampCar officials, will NOT be allowed on track."

 

Extensive openings needs to be reworded to be definite and not interpreted. 

This is my concern. Because the comments I saw seem to indicate there is now a new interpretation of a rule that has been in place for years. 

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30 minutes ago, Chris Huggins said:

Yes, this cycle where the marketing director changes the rules mid-stream and then people have to petition to send them back is exactly how it’s supposed to be working. 

Seems like a great way to manage it. I mean, what could go wrong?

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Jay approved of my window net setup with no issues in 2019 and 2020. 
 

Rules have not changed.  My setup has not changed and is not expired. 
 

Therefore I should have no issue in 2021.  
 

Hahahahahahahaha ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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4 hours ago, ETR said:

Jay approved of my window net setup with no issues in 2019 and 2020. 
 

Rules have not changed.  My setup has not changed and is not expired. 
 

Therefore I should have no issue in 2021.  
 

Hahahahahahahaha ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Except Jay no longer works for ChampCar.

 

If NASCAR allows driver to be able to stick their hands out no more than their wrists then intent of the rule needs to be that. Don't take away our ability to point people by or to adjust the drivers side mirror.

Edited by jakks
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On 2/15/2021 at 9:48 AM, Bill Strong said:

Posted by Bill Strong February 13, 2021 at 5:47pm 

You know when tech complains that your net does go far enough forward which allows your fingernails to exit the window in a rollover event? Use Lexan or clear polycarbonate to fill in the gap where your window trim or rear view mirror used to be.
Remember, per the BCCR 3.5.1.2. You are allowed 80 square inches of material there for free.
 
nascarnet.jpg
 

The reason for the post was that some teams could easily fix their net issues with adding a small bit of triangle polycarbonate to where their used to be a rear view mirror bracket triangle.
 

 

All cars are not created equally (which is why we all like ChampCar) and different cars have different windshield angles.  This is easy with a BMW,  sedans or even Mustangs, but what about cars with laid back windshields?   The top of you net can only go as far forward as the A-pillar and roof intersection. Even with an angled window net they only make them so steep. 

 

The addition of the “small triangle” on some cars could exceed the arbitrary 80 Sq In.  Also, in these cases are we all not concerned with the other safety items like emergency egress for the drivers?  If there is a large piece of plastic making the effective window opening smaller is this a good idea?  I would much rather risk a finger going past the net in an accident vs. not being able to exit a car in case of an emergency or even a fire. 

 

I would agree with others, if we have raced with years with our current set-up why do we now need to make modifications   

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43 minutes ago, smitham32803 said:

.  Also, in these cases are we all not concerned with the other safety items like emergency egress for the drivers?



Could it not be attached to the door rather than the cage to avoid driver egress issues.

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Sure during normal driver changes , but what about an accident?  What if there is an accident, the door will not open and the safety workers have to get an unconscious driver out of the car ( oh ya and the car is on fire)?. Or what if you are the driver, hit on the drivers side so the door does not open and the car is on fire, now you have to exit out a smaller opening than necessary.  

 

I am just pointing out that not all cars are the same and a one size fits all rule may have unintended consequences.  

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I posted up what tech staff and the CEO approved to post. Because, that's my job. 


Basically, the net needs to be even with your hands on the wheel is what I am told by tech staff. 

If it can't be, the specified size of the thin polycarbonate can be used. 

We will do some videos are VIR to show others what they mean and what they are talking about in their own words. We can show you fails and what they pass.
 

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