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New Yellow Flag Rule - WRL


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What do you all think about the new WRL yellow flag rule? It does seem like it could be safer.

 

Effective Immediately, the following changes have been made to the yellow flag / passing under yellow rules:

 

 

No car may be beside another car perpendicular to the first station displaying a yellow flag. From the plane of the first station displaying yellow there is no passing and cars must be single file. Cars must remain in single-file formation AND reduce speed around safety vehicle(s) / incidents until you are perpendicular to the flag station displaying a green flag. The car behind is responsible for ensuring a side-by-side condition does not exist in any yellow zone as defined above.

 

 

What this means to you: We will now be displaying a green flag at the end of the yellow zone in any local yellow area instead of relying on "line of sight to the next station not displaying a yellow flag" as it was in the past. This is to reduce ambiguity and make passing under yellow zones clear and enforceable. Passes should not be initiated prior to that green flag, that means accelerating "jumping" out of single file, etc. All cars must be single file until they cross the plane of the station displaying the green flag. Penalties for passing under yellow will remain unchanged. This will be updated on all future supplemental rules and the 2021 rulebook in the coming days.

Edited by MR2 Biohazard
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1 minute ago, 67Mustang said:

Just going to open arguments over whether the next flag station is asleep or not.

 

You almost need to base passing under yellow on a transponder in both cars.

 

I think it is basically saying that under yellow everyone goes single file until you are at the next green flag station and then you can get out of line to start passing.   Now if that flag station is sleeping then it would be no green flag and a no go to racing. I wonder if someone does not see the green flag they would think green and go anyway. I can see that causing issues if that happens and until people learn.

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This is basically what lemons does too.  With the exception of the green flag.

 

In other words, you are under caution right at the flag stand displaying the yellow and green again at the next manner station not displaying a flag.

 

Champcar said years ago they didn't want to do it this way because it can lead to people racing to the flag stand.

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1 minute ago, wvumtnbkr said:

This is basically what lemons does too.  With the exception of the green flag.

 

In other words, you are under caution right at the flag stand displaying the yellow and green again at the next manner station not displaying a flag.

 

Champcar said years ago they didn't want to do it this way because it can lead to people racing to the flag stand.

I did not read it that way. Being that you are not allowed to be next to the car at the yellow flag station you can not race to that station. When you see a yellow flag you need to get in a single file line. Maybe I am reading into it wrong though.

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1 minute ago, Andrew D Johnson said:

I like their new rule. 

The more I think about the more I like it also. I like the single file around the yellow flag to stay away from EMT and incidents in a controlled manor. This rule would cause that to happen at the incidence, before and after.

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22 minutes ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

The more I think about the more I like it also. I like the single file around the yellow flag to stay away from EMT and incidents in a controlled manor. This rule would cause that to happen at the incidence, before and after.


I just think about T1 at Road Atlanta. I get a run going down the hill, look at start finish before to check for a flag. I tuck in behind the car I want to pass and then at the last second I pull inside of them and out brake them. When I pull inside, its the first time I see the flag and I am already threshold braking by that point. I make the pass before being perpendicular to the flag, but with our current rules that is a PUY. 

 

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I like it.  Positive confirmation to GO rather than just not seeing something, because oftentimes I can still see a half-rolled-up yellow in hand at a station when we aren't under yellow, especially at Harris Hill.  

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3 minutes ago, Andrew D Johnson said:


I just think about T1 at Road Atlanta. I get a run going down the hill, look at start finish before to check for a flag. I tuck in behind the car I want to pass and then at the last second I pull inside of them and out brake them. When I pull inside, its the first time I see the flag and I am already threshold braking by that point. I make the pass before being perpendicular to the flag, but with our current rules that is a PUY. 

 

I wonder if the rule should be line of sight to the flag station and get in single file line. If an incident is at the flag station area do we want anyone passing right up to the flag station and going two wide. At RA, when you go under the start finish flag station you can see turn 1 flag station.  Single file of cars from sight of the flag station and single file until the next flag station that is not green. That would cause head to toe cars and pull out right at that flag station for passing though.

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I like it as well.  I am sure it will take some getting used to but it seems like it still allows the whole group to accelerate when they see green, but just limits passing until the flag stand.  This would allow the single file line to get up to speed (or at least up to the speed of the slowest car). Sort of a "soft" start.

Seems like it would help the momentum cars out a little?

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10 minutes ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

I wonder if the rule should be line of sight to the flag station and get in single file line. If an incident is at the flag station area do we want anyone passing right up to the flag station and going two wide. At RA, when you go under the start finish flag station you can see turn 1 flag station.  Single file of cars from sight of the flag station and single file until the next flag station that is not green. That would cause head to toe cars and pull out right at that flag station for passing though.

 If the incident is at T1, have a yellow at start finish as you can always see that coming down the hill unless there is fog. I can't see T1 when I am behind a car at start finish. 

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I like the rule but curious how it would play with the Flagtronics system...

 

Could be cool if everything played nice together like the Flagtronics goes Green which tells you that soon you will see a green flag so be ready (but don't go until you pass the flag station).  Kinda like a heads up.

 

What's concerning now is that you have drivers choosing whatever green flag indicator happens first, be it the flag station, flagtronics or the spotter on the radio telling them some flag on the other side of the track is GREEN GREEN GREEN!

 

We need to reduce confusion and make it simple and consistent for all drivers.

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10 minutes ago, Andrew D Johnson said:

 If the incident is at T1, have a yellow at start finish as you can always see that coming down the hill unless there is fog. I can't see T1 when I am behind a car at start finish. 

I am sure there are tracks where you can not see the next flag station from the car view until you are close or up on it. I would think most you can see from a bit away. 

2 minutes ago, QuaTTro said:

I like the rule but curious how it would play with the Flagtronics system...

 

Could be cool if everything played nice together like the Flagtronics goes Green which tells you that soon you will see a green flag so be ready (but don't go until you pass the flag station).  Kinda like a heads up.

 

What's concerning now is that you have drivers choosing whatever green flag indicator happens first, be it the flag station, flagtronics or the spotter on the radio telling them some flag on the other side of the track is GREEN GREEN GREEN!

 

We need to reduce confusion and make it simple and consistent for all drivers.

Flagger the driver sees always trumps everything.

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The issue would be with the green flag.  If the next station doesn’t have the green flag out right away, what do you do.  
 

Imagine if you pass the yellow, pass the incident, then at the next station, there’s no flag.  So you need to stay slow and single file right?  Then 5 seconds later that station goes green and all those cars blow by you and you still havnt seem a green flag.   
I like the idea of waiting till the next station without a yellow.

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Flaggers always USUALLY look down-track from their station.  Sometimes thats a bit complicated by poor station placement (IE road atlanta Turn 1 sucks) but thats generally the process.

 

At VIR I know this works like that, even during champcar events.  I highly doubt that PUY would get called if you passed between 2 and 3 and station 3 was yellow. 

Now if you pass between 3 and 4 and 3 is yellow, you will get called

 

The green flag part is definitely a recipe for someone missing the message, even if the flagger is asleep for just a second.  Unless they are all stations always green?  Our standard is "no flag = go flag"

 

This basically puts a lot more pressure on the flaggers displaying yellow and immediately after the incident to be on their game, both to be calling these post-incident but pre-station PUY and to be 100% on the spot with the green flag.

Edited by Chris Huggins
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Will this change the starting green flag behavior or restarts from full course yellow? IE Everyone must pass Start/Finish before we can begin passing.  It seems that if "line of sight" is presenting a safety issue then the rule must apply everywhere.

 

How about passing when you see the yellow flag but have not reached the flag station yet? 

Edited by TouchStone
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The idea I like is the single file once are at the yellow flag station and then through the incident area and after. The question is do you start racing and get out of single file once you see the flag station is green/no flag or have to wait until you get to that flag station.  If it is a local yellow only you could slow down, get in line at the yellow, right past that yellow see a flag station that is clear and go out of line and be good. I do think it is more important to get in single file line ASAP and not try to race to the flag station as that is where the incident is and issue is.  In that case at least around the incident it is single file and controlled. I could see people jumping out of line when a few cars in front did it to anticipate the green and be an issue.

 

I think the single file line around an incident has merit though.

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Every yellow flag I've been in I have been single file. IndyCar, Nascar, IMSA, F1. they are not side by side they are single file under the yellow. I'm not in favor of adding rules where a Station Worker or Official has to make a judgment call. People need to be more responsible during yellows and around safety trucks. All drivers under a yellow should be able to see the next flag station to see if it's gone green. And I see the pace starting to pick up once the drivers see a green.

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The goal is to "reduce ambiguity and make passing under yellow zones clear and enforceable". My opinion is to keep the same line of sight rules but add the requirement that while under yellow cars line up in single file, or do not drive side-by-side defined as the plane crossing the front bumper or the following car and rear bumper of the lead car. I feel like for the most part everyone does this anyways.

 

Does this new rule mean that if you are side by side with another car under yellow you get the same penalty as PUY?

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This isn't a bad idea if CC thinks they need better control over the drivers. It sounds to me like 'less race, more yellow'. In all of the other racing I have done, passing is allowed after you pass the incident, which seems perfectly logical. I think we could have problems defining and enforcing 'single file', and 'overlapping cars', which is very hard to police. Not all cars are the same width. 

 

I would vote no for this rule because it is unneeded. CC already has trouble enforcing PUY the way it is, so there is almost no chance that this will be something that is consistent and therefore well-liked. 

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25 minutes ago, TouchStone said:

Will this change the starting green flag behavior or restarts from full course yellow? IE Everyone must pass Start/Finish before we can begin passing.  It seems that if "line of sight" is presenting a safety issue then the rule must apply everywhere.

 

How about passing when you see the yellow flag but have not reached the flag station yet? 

My personal thought is if you are racing hard to get past someone before you get to the flag station or right at the flag station that is an issue. If you are at full speed and not respecting the yellow flag or the incident there you can cause another incident or if EMT personnel are there they are not safe.  

 

I thought CC was line of sight to the next flag station. In my mind is that if you can see the flag station then you should not be passing and if you can see the flag station they can see you and you can get a PUY black flag.

 

If there is a yellow flag do most people race to that yellow flag to get past someone or do they slow down and get in line? I know I slow down to get in line, but is that the common practice?

 

Looking at the rulebook it says

Yellow FlagLocal yellow. Slow, no passing. Some-thing is dangerous ahead

Edited by MR2 Biohazard
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27 minutes ago, MR2 Biohazard said:

My personal thought is if you are racing hard to get past someone before you get to the flag station or right at the flag station that is an issue. If you are at full speed and not respecting the yellow flag or the incident there you can cause another incident or if EMT personnel are there they are not safe.  

 

If there is a yellow flag to most people race to that yellow flag to get past someone or do they slow down and get in line? I know I slow down to get in line, but is that the common practice?

 

Looking at the rulebook it says

Yellow FlagLocal yellow. Slow, no passing. Some-thing is dangerous ahead

 

I agree 100% as soon as I see a yellow flag, (or even get radioed about an upcoming yellow flag) I slow down and look ahead for whatever is dangerous.  My issue is the wording of the new rule makes it sound like you will ONLY serve a penalty at or after the yellow flag station. 

 

Side note - WRL is basically admitting that they cant police PUY, which I think is a bad idea to clue in the drivers of this fact.  They should just take the public stance that they will catch PUY violations and penalties will be served under the current rules (even if they cant).

Edited by TouchStone
WRL not Champcar
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  • MR2 Biohazard changed the title to New Yellow Flag Rule - WRL

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