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What about Mustang 4.0 2005-2010 v6 engine?


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Hi,

 

Just out of curiosity, have anyone messed around with the 2005-2010 mustang v6 4.0 engine?

 

Given it's large displacement, RWD application and sports car engine I would think it would be very interesting.. 

 

But I can't find much about it, very little aftermarket support and seems very hard to get power from it.

 

Seems like 200-210whp is the highest NA with bolt ons (not a lot given it's 4.0 and from this century).

 

 

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1 hour ago, turbogrill said:

Hi,

 

Just out of curiosity, have anyone messed around with the 2005-2010 mustang v6 4.0 engine?

 

Given it's large displacement, RWD application and sports car engine I would think it would be very interesting.. 

 

But I can't find much about it, very little aftermarket support and seems very hard to get power from it.

 

Seems like 200-210whp is the highest NA with bolt ons (not a lot given it's 4.0 and from this century).

 

 

I would hardly call it a sports car engine, More of a truck engine, probably has decent torque…As a tech, I call them garbage, the timing chains don’t hold up all that great in real life driving, and I have seen camshaft damage from restrictions in oil due to sludge/carbon flakes. Perhaps with all new components and frequent oil changes they might be ok.

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15 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

I would hardly call it a sports car engine, More of a truck engine, probably has decent torque…As a tech, I call them garbage, the timing chains don’t hold up all that great in real life driving, and I have seen camshaft damage from restrictions in oil due to sludge/carbon flakes. Perhaps with all new components and frequent oil changes they might be ok.

 

haha, interesting. Curious why they put that in the Mustang. The 2011+ v6 seems to be good (outside of our swap calculators)

 

There is to be a little more stuff going on with the older 3.8 v6 engine, how would you rate that? 

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12 minutes ago, turbogrill said:

 

 

There is to be a little more stuff going on with the older 3.8 v6 engine, how would you rate that? 

3.8, tried-and-true, I’ve seen them run without oil and not blow up, head gaskets, another story, I would start with studded heads.

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1 hour ago, Team Infiniti said:

3.8, tried-and-true, I’ve seen them run without oil and not blow up, head gaskets, another story, I would start with studded heads.

 

What about Ford 3.8 vs GM 3800 (L36/L26) vs GM 3.5 (LX9/LZ4)?

 

It seems like the Ford is the winner there in terms of know-how and aftermarket support. Only seen a few >200whp GM v6 engines while it seems common on the Ford.

 

(Just curious, started researching this for a swap)

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Snorman said:

How many swap cars are you building? Six? 

 

Are you asking me if I am building six race cars? If so no....that would be great!

 

Looking into a swap for a Nissan, there are lots of different options with so many factors to consider. 

 

The typical swaps doesn't really work well for Champcar so can't copy someone else. Good for me is that it's lots of knowledge on this forum.

 

 

Edit:

Here is a bunch of dyno results from the Ford 3.8, https://www.v6power.net/dyno/na.php

>250whp seems to be mostly 4.2  

Edited by turbogrill
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7 hours ago, turbogrill said:

Ford 3.8 vs GM 3800 (L36/L26) vs GM 3.5 (LX9/LZ4)

 Ford 3.8 iron block, olde time tech, GM 3.8 iron block & heads, dated , 3.5 iron block but has VVT

 

For this racing, my preference would be the newest, cheapest. 

 

Random ramble: if the chosen engine is cheap, it would be a indicator of low demand i.e. reliable on the street, 4.0L fords generally expensive, Honda j30 v6 cheeeep.

 

 

Edited by Team Infiniti
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9 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said:

Honda j30 v6 cheeeep.

 

Honda J35A1 v6 is interesting, I think you can take a 210hp J35A1 and slap some better intakes/headers on it and get cheap reliable power. Not sure how to do with the ECU.

But it's all FWD, @Dimsun Racing was kind enough to share how he swapped it but it requires a little bit of fabbing skills.

 

11 minutes ago, 67Mustang said:

drop in a Ford 5.0 Windsor V8 and be done... 200-210 depending on the donor car and a better upside.

 

What about weight?

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1 minute ago, turbogrill said:

 

 

 

What about weight?

That info is all out there and super easy to find. anywhere from 400-450 lbs depending on your source and era of reference.  Less with Al heads...

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3 minutes ago, 67Mustang said:

That info is all out there and super easy to find. anywhere from 400-450 lbs depending on your source and era of reference.  Less with Al heads...

 

Yes, about 100-150 lbs heavier, assume that is with iron heads. :) 

Edited by turbogrill
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44 minutes ago, turbogrill said:

 

Honda J35A1 v6 is interesting, I think you can take a 210hp J35A1 and slap some better intakes/headers on it and get cheap reliable power. Not sure how to do with the ECU.


Yes, I would think you could have very nice results with some minor mods on the J35A1. I know flashpro has support for some of the J series. 

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2 hours ago, turbogrill said:

 

What about Ford 3.8 vs GM 3800 (L36/L26) vs GM 3.5 (LX9/LZ4)?

 

It seems like the Ford is the winner there in terms of know-how and aftermarket support. Only seen a few >200whp GM v6 engines while it seems common on the Ford.

 

(Just curious, started researching this for a swap)

Here are my thoughts...

 

Honda is the best engine.  Probably by far.

 

The gm3800 is great and reliable in this type of racing.  Has a stock rwd configuration to use.  Perfect if you are looking for 200 rwhp.  (Should be able to do that with a tune).

 

Gm3500...  my choice.  Cheap.  Reliable as an anvil.  200 hp at the flywheel stock.  I run the non vvt and my engine has put down 180+ rwhp with all champ legal (free) mods.  Use the rwd bits from the same camaro donor as above.

 

I know nothing about the Ford engine.  Sorry.

 

If I had it to do over again, I would probably go with the Honda.  However, when I first did the swap, the hp number was too high for my car /swap weight.  The 3400 was right at the upper edge.

 

Since I had already done the 3400, the 3500 was damn near identical.  There is some wiring changes and fuel differences and that's about it.  When I claimed the car as an 89, it freed up a few pounds in the swap weight that allowed me more hp. 

 

The Honda and gm3500 are similar horsepower and cost.  The 3500 is probably a slightly easier swap due to a bolt together clutch, trans, starter, engine package that doesn't require fab.  Plus, like ALL of the ecu s for seemingly ANY gm car can run it after some hp tuner mods.

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4 hours ago, turbogrill said:

Looking into a swap for a Nissan, there are lots of different options with so many factors to consider. 

 

Have you ruled out the maxima vq30de, with the Z or G 6 speed? Seems to be a good setup in a 240sx.  That's an aluminum 190 hp engine. 

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The 4.0 ford motor is a bad street car engine. I would not want to race one.  The VQ30 from the 96 maxima is what we run. bolts up to a CD009 6 speed trans.  We run the factory ECU with Nistune.  If i had to do it again i would go with an aftermarket ECU.

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I own one. Would make a terrible S197 racecar with the stock gearing. Hates to rev, heavy flywheel stock. Not enough points in the chassis to give it what it needs.

 

If you like the S197 chassis the 4.6 V8 or later 3.7 V6 (that would be my choice) have far more potential, and aftermarket parts and tuning support, even with their higher starting points.

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19 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

The gm3800 is great and reliable in this type of racing.  Has a stock rwd configuration to use.  Perfect if you are looking for 200 rwhp.  (Should be able to do that with a tune).

There is a certain citrus racer that has put the 3800 in just about everything. Get the supercharged one and push 400hp, however the intake on a supercharged 3800 in a rwd can be.....Interesting

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1 hour ago, Fitsbain said:

There is a certain citrus racer that has put the 3800 in just about everything. Get the supercharged one and push 400hp, however the intake on a supercharged 3800 in a rwd can be.....Interesting

I thought there was a way to turn it around, but you still have the thermostat housing near the firewall then?

 

I assume you are talking about the legend Dave Morrow?  Super nice guy!  His family is pretty awesome too.  He once gave me an engine at the track to get us running again.  For free.

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2 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said:

I thought there was a way to turn it around, but you still have the thermostat housing near the firewall then?

 

I assume you are talking about the legend Dave Morrow?  Super nice guy!  His family is pretty awesome too.  He once gave me an engine at the track to get us running again.  For free.

I am indeed talking of Dave.

 

The gremlin had the air intake under the dash. So there was a firewall box that had 4 in pvc plumbing in a u turn and then out to the passenger headlight.

 

I had the "honor" of sitting under the dash to change out the MAF during the race at NCM.

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The F-150 4.2 v6 engine seems interesting, it's rated 202 hp and essentially a stroked Mustang. So decent aftermarket exists, there is youtube videos on how to port the heads. EDIS and fuel injection.

Seems like a better option than GM 3800 or 3500. 

 

Probably less potential than a SBF (20% smaller), but you would get >100 lbs of the nose and weight more inward the car.

 

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I duno...                                                      lbs

Ford 4.2 V6             488     (161) flexplate and front dress, no A/C compressor. Shipping wt w/skid
Ford 3.8L V6            376     (231)  1998 Mustang, dressed (dry)

Ford 289/302 V8         460     (168) (late 5.0s are a bit lighter)
Ford 221-302W           460     (48)
Ford Indy 255 pushrod   360     (120) all aluminum, 1963
Ford Indy 255 DOHC      400     (120) 1964, later known as Foyt Coyote V8
Ford 5.0 V8             450     (109)
Ford 5.0 V8             411     (171) 89 Mustang 5.0 GT (dry) inc: manifold,  carb(?), headers and alternator.  Not  inc: starter, smog pump, power

Chevy small block V8    575         (generic for '60s-'70s motors)
Chevy small block V8    535     (1) ('59 Corvette 283 w/alum. intake)
Chevy small block LS1   460     (185)

Chevy V6-90 229-4.3    425
Chevy V6-60 2.8, 3.1    350     (2)
Chevy V6-60, 2.8        350     (245)

Fairbanks-Morse      40,840     (126) 2894 CID, 12 cyl, 12, 408hp locomotive

Caterpillar L6         2867     (157) 3406E 600 Diesel 966CID

 

Personally, I'd go for the CAT, WE have some screamer C15's and I know you can pump the hoopty out of the 3406E....

Edited by 67Mustang
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