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and remember, none of this thread affects any tires for the 2021 season. 
hell,. you boys could ban some tire next year and boom, they stop selling that tire and release some super slick 240tw tire that pulls up the track cement as it is so sticky. but lasts 6 hours. It's like chasing your tail.

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This will require teams to spend more money on additional fire gear for crew. It will also be a huge issue for team mechanics working on a car. So now, that person has to be in full gear when laying u

If you make a tire change rule, keep 'em in the pit lane. We don't need people rushing around the paddock like they do in AER. Any fueling and  any tire changes must happen in pit lane, so they can be

You don’t have to. There are 100 teams out there to keep tabs on each other. Did ChampCar officials take video of a tuttle pit stop? Competitors did and then competitors filed a protest. You put in an

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1 minute ago, Bill Strong said:

I think Cooper just got purchased by another company. Goodyear or Goodyears parent company Sumitomo, or whoever owns them now. Coops are rebranded Avons if I remember right. So made in the UK?
 

They are Avons. Available here...  https://xtremetm.net/tires/road-legal-rs3-r/

We tried Cooper at Indy in 2018 & thought it was good tire. It's not the sole reason the Miada won tho.

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So, limit how many tires can be changed and the tools needed to change said tires. The money teams will learn real fast.

 

1 minute ago, hotrod said:

They are Avons. Available here...  https://xtremetm.net/tires/road-legal-rs3-r/

We tried Cooper at Indy in 2018 & thought it was good tire. It's not the sole reason the Miada won tho.

 

It has to be. either you were cheating, or the tires are too fast, or you had a zillion hp 1.6 liter. that's the only reason!

 

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13 minutes ago, Black Magic said:

 

FWD car problems. 

 

We run 20 to 40% more front brake bias (adjustable) in the neons than stock to prevent rear tires from becoming polygons when trail braking. The other option is to soften the rear roll stiffness, but you end up compromising the handling midcorner (understeer). The obvious answer, training people to not trail brake, never seems to work......

 

You are on the right path, just need to go further.

Ya the braking is better than it was. Thinking about swapping the SVT rear rotors for a smaller diameter focus set up. The car has great front braking capabilities so a little more tweaking will made the car better overall. 

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4 minutes ago, Bill Strong said:

So, limit how many tires can be changed and the tools needed to change said tires. The money teams will learn real fast.

 

 

It has to be. either you were cheating, or the tires are too fast, or you had a zillion hp 1.6 liter. that's the only reason!

 

That's always the way isn't it. Someone else is faster & their cheating or cheating more than we are. Some of our guys were volunteers at NCM & said the WTF Miata was on rails. 

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1 minute ago, QuaTTro said:

We didn't choose your driving style 🙂

We've made the car better but didn't run any in 2020 so we have a little catching up to do.

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9 minutes ago, Bill Strong said:

and remember, none of this thread affects any tires for the 2021 season. 
hell,. you boys could ban some tire next year and boom, they stop selling that tire and release some super slick 240tw tire that pulls up the track cement as it is so sticky. but lasts 6 hours. It's like chasing your tail.

 

The idea was to make a list of approved tires, not a list of banned tires. 

 

100 brands of grippy cement magnets could come out, if the series doesn't add them to the approved list it wouldn't affect us at all. 

 

Given how small the market for us is, and how slow the development happens in this segment, I can't imagine it would be an insurmountable technical task to evaluate the 1-2 new tires a year that come out and determine if they would be an outlier. If lucky dog can pull off the relationship building required to go spec tire racing, I would assume with a tire supplier as a series sponsor we could easily manage to make a list of a few tires to run....

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10 minutes ago, hotrod said:

We've made the car better but didn't run any in 2020 so we have a little catching up to do.

I'm teasing.  Glad to see you are finding small tweaks and working through brake lockup.  We've had to do similar and it's funny how some of our team members still struggle with it while others on our team never have issue with it.

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2 minutes ago, QuaTTro said:

I'm teasing.  Glad to see you are finding small tweaks and working through brake lockup.  We've had to do similar and it's funny how some of our team members still struggle with it while others on our team never have issue with it.

I knew you were just fooling around. Our first time out a few years ago we put race pads in the rear. Junk had to brake about 50 feet before we wanted to. That night we went to Autozone for the cheapies.

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42 minutes ago, Black Magic said:

The one that kicked butt at NCM (Cooper RS3-R)

I'm not sure about them being the best. They're definitely quicker than RS4s, but WTF evidently didn't get any more time out of them than they did RE71Rs. We obviously get way better tire life than they do.

For us at most tracks they'd be one-weekend tires. Maybe two weekends at Sebring.

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21 minutes ago, Black Magic said:

 

The one that kicked butt at NCM (Cooper RS3-R)

That's funny, I only know of a team or two that's planning on trying them. And that's just trying them. And this is several teams that are regularly on the podium. Your mileage may vary, but I think it's hardly "the most desirable tire in the series", lol. 

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37 minutes ago, Bill Strong said:

So, limit how many tires can be changed and the tools needed to change said tires. The money teams will learn real fast.

I’m opposed to any restrictions on tools for tire changing. If your goal is “limit tires to 1 per stop” or something of the sort, make the rule “one tire per stop” don’t make the rule “only manual wrenches may be used and only one new tire across the wall at once and only 3 crew etc. etc.” with the hope that such a rule limits teams to one tire per stop.

 

Limiting tools is something I have heard that lemons does as a penalty. And they have costumes... and themes... and a stripper pole on a car roof...

Edited by enginerd
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26 minutes ago, enginerd said:

I’m opposed to any restrictions on tools for tire changing. If your goal is “limit tires to 1 per stop” or something of the sort, make the rule “one tire per stop” don’t make the rule “only manual wrenches may be used and only one new tire across the wall at once and only 3 crew etc. etc.” with the hope that such a rule limits teams to one tire per stop.

 

Limiting tools is something I have heard that lemons does as a penalty. And they have costumes... and themes... and a stripper pole on a car roof...

I personally don't see the difference between a good Cobalt portable LI gun and an air driven one.  So I've never really understood limiting tools unless you're going to make teams use old fashioned tire irons.  That would be fun to watch.

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As I understand it the Cooper RS3-R has nothing in common with the normal Cooper tire range. They are made by the Avon race tire group in the UK, they are only imported to the US because there was already a company that was importing the Avon rally tires. Cooper is now the sponsor of WRL so it wouldn’t surprise me if they became the spec tire for them.

 

This points out a trend that I expect to see more of, tires made by racing companies that have a UTQG stamp on them. The next one I see coming down the road is the Nankang CR-1, it seems to be a full racing tire and is not available at TireRack or other mainstream tire dealers. There is even whispers of this tire being available in 275-35-15, those on a Miata should give the heavy car teams the vapors…

 

I believe that everyone believes now that if Hoosier wanted to they could mold a few random grooves into an R7, send them for UTQG testing and sell them as 200+ TW tires.

 

On the other hand, one of the tires constantly whined about is going away, the Bridgestone RE71 is going out of production, they may have even stopped producing new ones and we are just living on what’s left in stock. I can’t believe that Bridgestone would not stay in the market so we can expect something new but who knows how it will perform.

 

The 4 in the Hankook RS4 name implies that there will be an RS5 at some point. Considering how the market is going it is completely reasonable to believe that it will be an Autocross rocket with terrible wear, but who knows.

 

In conclusion, it is a complicated and ever-changing world to try to legislate tire performance.

Edited by mhr650
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1 hour ago, Snorman said:

That's funny, I only know of a team or two that's planning on trying them. And that's just trying them. And this is several teams that are regularly on the podium. Your mileage may vary, but I think it's hardly "the most desirable tire in the series", lol. 

 

Re71 width availability capped at 205 is a major hurdle compared to the Cooper (supposedly cooper will support 245 15"). Also end of production for RE71R tire. 15" Tires are no longer listed on tire rack....

 

The ability for you to find a discontinued tire may vary with mileage as well....

 

 

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1 minute ago, Black Magic said:

 

Re71 width availability capped at 205 is a major hurdle compared to the Cooper. Also end of production for RE71R tire. 15" Tires are no longer listed on tire rack....

 

The ability for you to find a discontinued tire may vary with mileage as well....

 

 

We're still getting new Federal's in 185/55R14 with no issue and loving them..... Last a whole weekend ! 

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1 hour ago, Grant said:

I'm not sure about them being the best. They're definitely quicker than RS4s, but WTF evidently didn't get any more time out of them than they did RE71Rs. We obviously get way better tire life than they do.

For us at most tracks they'd be one-weekend tires. Maybe two weekends at Sebring.

 

15" RE71R are NLA. I suppose the next best compare would be the yokes, but same issue with a lack of a 245 15" tire being a factor that would most likely shift teams to the cooper (which supposedly can be had in 245)

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5 minutes ago, Black Magic said:

 

Re71 width availability capped at 205 is a major hurdle compared to the Cooper. Also end of production for RE71R tire. 15" Tires are no longer listed on tire rack....

 

The ability for you to find a discontinued tire may vary with mileage as well....

 

 

 

Wide 15-inch tires are the new hot trend, lots of stuff in the pipeline. I converted my car back when the Maxxis was the only game in town, by the end of this year I expect to see as many as 10 tires available in 245-40-15, I can’t wait.

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15 minutes ago, Black Magic said:

 

15" RE71R are NLA. I suppose the next best compare would be the yokes, but same issue with a lack of a 245 15" tire being a factor that would most likely shift teams to the cooper (which supposedly can be had in 245)

In a 15" rim the only Coopers are 195 & 205 so far.

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22 minutes ago, mhr650 said:

 

Wide 15-inch tires are the new hot trend, lots of stuff in the pipeline. I converted my car back when the Maxxis was the only game in town, by the end of this year I expect to see as many as 10 tires available in 245-40-15, I can’t wait.

 

I also made the swap to fitting  15x10" wheels on the new car (at least on the business end). Would prefer not to, but will need the width to get durability and ability to push hard from the new era soft tires. 

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