Cam Benty Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 I have read through the rule and cannot find anything stating a motor cannot be moved towards the firewall to improve the car’s balance. The drive shaft will be shortened. The Motor mounts have been altered along with elongated holes on the trans mount. This is not a difficult task. Everything else will be factory spec. I have about 3 dollars worth of material in this endeavor I will claim. The rules seem to have some tribal knowledge not written. Looking for clarity. Any help will be appreciated. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam Benty Posted April 3 Author Report Share Posted April 3 (edited) Edited April 3 by Cam Benty 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 (edited) Aside from some hard work, and a few material points, nothing is stopping you. We plan to stuff a Nissan engine in our e30s radio hole... Edited April 3 by Team Infiniti 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 Do eet! Our swap has the engine literally touching the firewall. I thought about cutting the firewall and moving it back further, but the shifter lines up so well I didn't want to. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam Benty Posted April 3 Author Report Share Posted April 3 (edited) My biggest fear is the after fact retribution. This is not uncommon in this series. The 2 cars I have built, one I have raced, have been hit with increased points. Trying to figure out how to improve the breed without getting a point hit again. What sauce is needed to get a stable rules period for, Let’s say........2 years? Hopefully the new administration will give this a fair shake. On 4/3/2021 at 1:59 PM, Team Infiniti said: Aside from some hard work, and a few material points, nothing is stopping you. We plan to stuff a Nissan engine in our e30s radio hole... Titan 5.6?!!!!! If so I will rent a seat and pay for your next races entry fee!!!!! Hah!! 23 hours ago, wvumtnbkr said: Do eet! Our swap has the engine literally touching the firewall. I thought about cutting the firewall and moving it back further, but the shifter lines up so well I didn't want to. I gave this a serious thought. Pro Stock rules let us move the motor back to number one spark plug on the ball joint. I could get there but it would be a major endeavor. Oil pan issues, k member fabbing, trans tunnel manipulation, ( a big effing hammer to strategic area’s of the tunnel, shifter hole re-cut and patching, firewall bashing or channeling, you get the picture.) and approximately 15 to 30 points. And unknown reaction from our brethren. It would be fun to get into serious manipulation. I could move the K member forward about 12 inches and leave the motor where it is. What do you think? Edited April 4 by Cam Benty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Cam Benty said: My biggest fear is after the fact retribution. This is not uncommon in this series. The 2 cars I have built, one I have raced, have been hit with increased points. Trying to figure out how to improve the breed without getting a point hit again. What sauce is needed to get a stable rules period for, Let’s say........2 years? Hopefully the new administration will give this a fair shake. Titan 5.6?!!!!! If so I will rent a seat and pay for your next races entry fee!!!!! Hah!! I gave this a serious thought. Pro Stock rules let us move the motor back to number one spark plug on the ball joint. I could get there but it would be a major endeavor. Oil pan issues, k member fabbing, trans tunnel manipulation, ( a big effing hammer to strategic area’s of the tunnel, shifter hole re-cut and patching, firewall bashing or channeling, you get the picture.) and approximately 15 to 30 points. And unknown reaction from our brethren. It would be fun to get into serious manipulation. I could move the K member forward about 12 inches and leave the motor where it is. What do you think? 5.6!?! I wish! Where do you get 30pts? Alloy v6 3.0 maxima engine coupled to stock BMW slushbox, cut firewall, stuff/fit everything back till it hits the dash bar, should be 0 points as we are doing the engine swap and have to make mounts anyway. Driveshaft cutting/removal of material 0 pts, material to scoot back center of firewall should be 0pts as it will come from elsewhere on the car. Move K member forward?We are still a builders series... Knock yourself out, I would love to drive it someday. Edited April 3 by Team Infiniti 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam Benty Posted April 3 Author Report Share Posted April 3 4 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said: 5.6!?! I wish! Where do you get 30pts? Well, let us start with motor mount fabrication. The mounts will be moved off the k member and need extensive metal fabbing. Next is channeling the firewall adding metal. I looked at this and decided it was more involved than I wanted to tackle. Alloy v6 3.0 maxima engine coupled to stock BMW slushbox, cut firewall, stuff/fit everything back till it hits the dash bar, should be 0 points as we are doing the engine swap and have to make mounts anyway. I am sure you have a sound plan Driveshaft cutting/removal of material 0 pts, material to scoot back center of firewall should be 0pts as it will come from elsewhere on the car. My build does not have a lot of room to the firewall. Made a decision base on lowest cost and work vs results. Move K member forward? Knock yourself out. steering shaft extension, fabrication of motor mounts without k member, move radiator mounts, etc. I was being metaphoric. Should have used green font. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Magic Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 There has been several cars with the engine setback increased that have raced in the series, so there is clear precident for this being done. I think it was the looney tunes mustang I saw out west with huge setback, that was a long time ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cam Benty Posted April 3 Author Report Share Posted April 3 I have seen the Looney Tunes car. I did not see a big set back at that time. (2019 at R.A. ) This build is not a Mustang. 10 minutes ago, Black Magic said: There has been several cars with the engine setback increased that have raced in the series, so there is clear precident for this being done. I think it was the looney tunes mustang I saw out west with huge setback, that was a long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 Just get something with a large backseat, move the driver back 12 inches and do the same with the firewall. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gundy Posted April 5 Report Share Posted April 5 From BCCR 3.16. DRIVE SHAFT 3.16.1 All cars that have modified the OEM driveshaft or swapped in a non-OEM driveshaft must use a driveshaft safety loop. From Tech Desk 2020-01-05 - Modifying Driveshaft Q. If a stock driveshaft is shortened to move an engine rearward, is there a point penalty? A. Removing material is no point add. On a drive shaft we want a shaft shop to do the work, bring a receipt. An altered non-stock shaft must have a safety hoop installed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiredBirds Posted April 5 Report Share Posted April 5 if we had time we'd do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67Mustang Posted April 5 Report Share Posted April 5 (edited) I'm still liking this path..... This guy would need to have the 302 moved back some though for my liking.... Road race pan will barely fit between the rails. A good 6 inch set back would be a great start lol. Nice work there Paul. Might be down in Houston in a couple of weeks although not sure I'll have any time to eat lunch or anything. Packager has a deadline for putting a box on a trailer'd genset and we have a butt ton of testing to accomplish lol. Edited April 5 by 67Mustang 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Strong Posted April 5 Report Share Posted April 5 This is what I love about ChampCar. We don't tell you how to build a car. We tell you what you can't do. sorta. I love the twilight zone grey area, where we can Play! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiredBirds Posted April 6 Report Share Posted April 6 only Issue w/ a GM is the distrib...why they put it all the at the back of the motor is a mystery. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhr650 Posted April 6 Report Share Posted April 6 5 minutes ago, TiredBirds said: only Issue w/ a GM is the distrib...why they put it all the at the back of the motor is a mystery. Who would run a distributor in 2021, when ECU’s are free, and LS coils are dirt cheap? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Strong Posted April 6 Report Share Posted April 6 17 minutes ago, mhr650 said: Who would run a distributor in 2021, when ECU’s are free, and LS coils are dirt cheap? People that want to spend their time racing and not sitting in front of a computer on their roof trying to figure out why the A/F ratios are 19:1 and their timing and not advancing because some sensor is only sending a 2v signal when its supposed to be 5,1v. Whatever the hell all that means. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvumtnbkr Posted April 6 Report Share Posted April 6 27 minutes ago, Bill Strong said: People that want to spend their time racing and not sitting in front of a computer on their roof trying to figure out why the A/F ratios are 19:1 and their timing and not advancing because some sensor is only sending a 2v signal when its supposed to be 5,1v. Whatever the hell all that means. Haha... Cause points, condensors, dwell, springs, weights, vacuum advance, mechanical advance, etc.... are all maintenance free! (Yes, I know those are all seperate things that don't coexist in 1 distributor) In other words, give me a signal wire, and some coils. Sooo much easier and more reliable! I do get your point. Simple and proven is good. Sometimes newer and proven is also good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuaTTro Posted April 6 Report Share Posted April 6 Wish we could move our engine back....Audi likes to put the engine in FRONT of the axle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhr650 Posted April 6 Report Share Posted April 6 35 minutes ago, Bill Strong said: People that want to spend their time racing and not sitting in front of a computer on their roof trying to figure out why the A/F ratios are 19:1 and their timing and not advancing because some sensor is only sending a 2v signal when its supposed to be 5,1v. Whatever the hell all that means. Distributors are a bit overpriced at 20 points but here you go. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-85101?seid=srese1&gclid=CjwKCAjwjbCDBhAwEiwAiudByw2yKTXzG6Sor0CIXHCcD5NQe_X8lEIFiAvwkMaoEv-qnGcrsKVNqRoC5E0QAvD_BwE 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiredBirds Posted April 6 Report Share Posted April 6 1 hour ago, mhr650 said: Who would run a distributor in 2021, when ECU’s are free, and LS coils are dirt cheap? what Bill said. we run a CARB... and an HEI distrib is cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommytipover Posted April 6 Report Share Posted April 6 8 minutes ago, mhr650 said: Distributors are a bit overpriced at 20 points but here you go. Distributors 20 pts, wings 10... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Infiniti Posted April 6 Report Share Posted April 6 1 hour ago, TiredBirds said: .why they put it all the at the back of the motor is a mystery. Chevy guys don't like the cluster f of a timing cover with all that going on? I have to build a cage around my mid 80s ford demo derby dizzy to keep it from getting run over (yes a real problem) Kidding... or am I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiredBirds Posted April 6 Report Share Posted April 6 3 minutes ago, Team Infiniti said: Chevy guys don't like the cluster f of a timing cover with all that going on? I have to build a cage around my mid 80s ford demo derby dizzy to keep it from getting run over (yes a real problem) Kidding... or am I No cluster here 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit Posted April 6 Report Share Posted April 6 3 hours ago, Bill Strong said: People that want to spend their time racing and not sitting in front of a computer on their roof trying to figure out why the A/F ratios are 19:1 and their timing and not advancing because some sensor is only sending a 2v signal when its supposed to be 5,1v. Whatever the hell all that means. Does the local parts place even carry Quadrajet rebuild kits anymore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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