Miata Brakes - ST-43 Alternatives

[Hugh Jass]

We typically run Raybestos ST-43 pads front and rear from Porterfield but when I tried to order some last week, I found out that the fronts are back ordered with no ETA.  So my question to the group is what pads should I consider if I cannot locate more ST-43 front pads?  Porterfield has ST-42 and 45 in stock as well as their R4-E.  I am afraid the 45s might be too much bite and be hard to modulate.  

 

If you have extra ST-43 pads in R635.13 shape (94-00) that you want to get rid of let me know.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Hugh Jass
added detail

[JDChristianson]

Miata calipers?

[Hugh Jass]

yes, 94-00 non-sport brakes 

[Clifford Beisler]

CARBOTECH!  They are awesome on miata's  and 240's.  That i know for sure.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Just now, Clifford Beisler said:

CARBOTECH!  They are awesome on miata's  and 240's.  That i know for sure.

 

 

Which compound?  

[Clifford Beisler]

We run the XP8.  I would call and tell them your exact setup to be sure.  Tell them NLS sent you.

[veris]

I've run both ST 43 and ST 45. They are very similar. ST 45 have more cold temperature bite. Once warm they are very similar to ST 43, but last longer.  My other drivers commented that the brakes felt the same between the two pad types. 

 

From what I've heard ST 47 last similar to ST 43, but have way more bite.  Hope to try them out later this year. 

Edited April 12, 2021 by veris

[veris]

[MMiskoe]

Hawk Blue or Porterfield R4 or R4E.

 

The Hawks are not as easy to modulate and you can do some flatspot damage.  They are actually easier to manage on Hoosiers than on the TW200's we run here because the tire has more feel.  We used to run them w/o issue for 12 hours at Summit Point on Hoosiers and have been running them everywhere that Champ runs, even at Thompson which is pretty tough on brakes.

 

The Porterfields are a bit harder to come by but do offer somewhat better modulation.  I started running them on my 2002 Miata because it has the sport brake package and the Blue's weren't available in that size.  These too can handle 12+ hours on a Miata.

 

 

.

[Chappy]

Recently switched to ST42 fronts.  Have a little less initial bite than the 43, which is what we were looking for.  Have a couple of drivers that are a little too forceful with the pedal and flat spot.  Seems like the 42 has helped the issue.  Life seems little less with the 42.  No other issues.

 

I have run the R4E and seems to have similar bite to a 43, don’t think they had as long of life though. 

 

I “might” have a set or two of 43 fronts still.   I’ll check tomorrow, if I do I’ll shoot you a PM.

[Mazmarc]

5 hours ago, Chappy said:

Recently switched to ST42 fronts.  Have a little less initial bite than the 43, which is what we were looking for.  Have a couple of drivers that are a little too forceful with the pedal and flat spot.  Seems like the 42 has helped the issue.  Life seems little less with the 42.  No other issues.

 

I have run the R4E and seems to have similar bite to a 43, don’t think they had as long of life though. 

 

I “might” have a set or two of 43 fronts still.   I’ll check tomorrow, if I do I’ll shoot you a PM.

 

All of this right here. We are staying with 42's after exactly the same experiences as Chappy. We just finished up Daytona with front pads that went 14 hours at Sebring!!

 

I have a set or two of used 43's with plenty of life left if you want them.

 

 

[TiredBirds]

16 hours ago, Hugh Jass said:

We typically run Raybestos ST-43 pads front and rear from Porterfield but when I tried to order some last week, I found out that the fronts are back ordered with no ETA.  So my question to the group is what pads should I consider if I cannot locate more ST-43 front pads?  Porterfield has ST-42 and 45 in stock as well as their R4-E.  I am afraid the 45s might be too much bite and be hard to modulate.  

 

If you have extra ST-43 pads in R635.13 shape (94-00) that you want to get rid of let me know.

we had the same problem, we went with a Wilwood pad with the same properties. I cannot recall the number thou. Call Summit and ask, that's who we got ours from. They worked very well. We run a Gen III Firebird w/ C6 Brakes, so the car isn't light and we carry a lot of speed down the straights. The pads look good after 2-3 weekends of racing and practice. 

 

[ETR]

On 4/12/2021 at 6:09 PM, MMiskoe said:

Hawk Blue or Porterfield R4 or R4E.

 

The Hawks are not as easy to modulate and you can do some flatspot damage.  They are actually easier to manage on Hoosiers than on the TW200's we run here because the tire has more feel.  We used to run them w/o issue for 12 hours at Summit Point on Hoosiers and have been running them everywhere that Champ runs, even at Thompson which is pretty tough on brakes.

 

The Porterfields are a bit harder to come by but do offer somewhat better modulation.  I started running them on my 2002 Miata because it has the sport brake package and the Blue's weren't available in that size.  These too can handle 12+ hours on a Miata.

 

 

.

 

Blues are available for the sport brakes, I get mine from Goodwin Racing.  I've been happy with them, but I'd consider trying the R4's if they have comparable life but a little better modulation.

 

https://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda-Performance-Part/60-12482B.html

https://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda-Performance-Part/60-10412B.html

 

[mcoppola]

On 4/12/2021 at 7:09 PM, MMiskoe said:

Hawk Blue or Porterfield R4 or R4E.

 

The Hawks are not as easy to modulate and you can do some flatspot damage.  They are actually easier to manage on Hoosiers than on the TW200's we run here because the tire has more feel.  We used to run them w/o issue for 12 hours at Summit Point on Hoosiers and have been running them everywhere that Champ runs, even at Thompson which is pretty tough on brakes.

 

The Porterfields are a bit harder to come by but do offer somewhat better modulation.  I started running them on my 2002 Miata because it has the sport brake package and the Blue's weren't available in that size.  These too can handle 12+ hours on a Miata.

 

 

.

 

Thanks @MMiskoe. I just switched from Blues to Porterfield R-4's (haven't tried them yet), under the advice of longtime series sponsor Mark Link at Frozen Rotors.

Mark told me exactly what you described - a bit less initial bite, but better modulation. Your experience and observations on slicks vs 200TW makes sense (to me) too.

 

10 hours ago, ETR said:

 

Blues are available for the sport brakes, I get mine from Goodwin Racing.  I've been happy with them, but I'd consider trying the R4's if they have comparable life but a little better modulation.

 

https://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda-Performance-Part/60-12482B.html

https://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda-Performance-Part/60-10412B.html

 

 

I saw this note on the site @ETR linked:

"Hawk recommends if another brand of carbon pad has been used on rotors previously, before using any Hawk compound pads, resurface or replace the rotors."

This seems to make sense to me. But it does conflict with something Mark just told me during our conversations. I asked if I'd need new, or to resurface my rotors for the R-4's after using Blues on them. His "trick of the trade" he shared was to save any old Blues you have. Supposedly if you put them on a used rotor and brake a few times as if under normal driving conditions, they will clean up the rotor surface, preparing it for a fresh set of different compound pads. 

I've never tried it - any old wily veterans that have heard of, or done this?

[cowboys647]

Our team switched from the 43s to 42s due to supply issues. Pretty much the same response as the other teams, less initial bite with similar wear. We ended up losing a hun/wheel/caliper before getting to the end of their life but we’ll be going to the 42 again. 

[Rodger Coan-Burningham]

On 4/13/2021 at 5:11 AM, Mazmarc said:

All of this right here. We are staying with 42's after exactly the same experiences as Chappy. We just finished up Daytona with front pads that went 14 hours at Sebring!!

 

I have a set or two of used 43's with plenty of life left if you want them.

 

It's hard to use up something you hardly use.  I have followed you, I know.

[Chappy]

2 minutes ago, Rodger Coan-Burningham said:

 

It's hard to use up something you hardly use.  I have followed you, I know.

Not sure if that is a good thing our bad!  

[takjak2]

Carbotechs here. XP10 front XP 8 rear.

[T-PAP]

We use G- Loc R10 front and R8 rear. They are more aggressive compounds available but we've found these to be easy on rotors and still perform really well. I'm not sure how they compare to the ST-43s or anything but may be worth looking into.

[Hugh Jass]

On 4/13/2021 at 6:11 AM, Mazmarc said:

 

All of this right here. We are staying with 42's after exactly the same experiences as Chappy. We just finished up Daytona with front pads that went 14 hours at Sebring!!

 

I have a set or two of used 43's with plenty of life left if you want them.

 

 

 

Thanks again for the pads @Mazmarc

You are a good dude. 

 

I tried to share pictures here for everyone else but they were rejected for max size by the forum. 

 

I need @Bill Strong to teach me how to change the quality of my pics. 

[Bandit]

15 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

 

Thanks again for the pads @Mazmarc

You are a good dude. 

 

I tried to share pictures here for everyone else but they were rejected for max size by the forum. 

 

I need @Bill Strong to teach me how to change the quality of my pics. 

Upload them to

https://imgur.com

 

Quick and easy.